[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: {-'e'} and {-bogh}

[qov at kli.org]

tlhIngan Hol bopbe' 'ej lo'be' QInlIj.  qechmeylIj Dalabqa'chugh, Hol qar
Dalo'taHvIS chaq vIqelqangchoH.

- Qov

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lojmIt tI'wI' nuv [mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com]
> Sent: January 17, 2016 20:34
> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: {-'e'} and {-bogh}
> 
> As a former student glider pilot, I object to the suggestion that an
aircraft
> lacking fuel is necessarily dangerous. Gliders are aircraft, they are
specifically
> designed to lack fuel, and they are not particularly dangerous. I
personally
> feel much more secure landing a glider than a powered aircraft, since
spoilers
> and slipping give at least as much control over glide slope as a throttle
during
> a normal landing, and visibility is better without an engine and an
excessive
> dashboard in the way.
> 
> Give me an air speed indicator, an altimeter, and a yaw string, with good
> visibility and I'm happy to land with no fuel. And if I crash, at least
there won't
> be a fire.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
> 
> > On Jan 17, 2016, at 4:33 PM, <qov at kli.org> <qov at kli.org> wrote:
> >
> > So I do have something else to do, but I'm sad that there are no more
> > example sentences, so I'm going to write some more.
> >
> > HIch bach mang. = The soldier shoots the pistol. (Yeah, the official
> > gloss is "handgun" but I looked up both handgun and pistol in the
> > Canadian Oxford and the definitions are too close to identical to whine
> about).
> > Duy' HIch bachbogh mang. = The pistol the soldier shoots is defective.
> > It could be interpreted that it was the soldier who was defective, but
> > unless it's a robosoldier, 'defective' isn't a word that would
> > normally be used for a soldier. After reading the word Duy', I'm
> > primed to look for a physical object to be the subject of the
> > sentence, so I latch onto HIch and read it correctly without the help of
-'e'.
> > tlhIv HIch bachbogh mang. = The soldier who shoots the pistol is
> > insubordinate. Again, unless we're dealing with advanced AI, there's
> > only one side of the -bogh clause that can be the subject of the verb,
> > so reading it I disregard HIch as a possible subject and keep reading to
> mang.
> > lo'laHbe' HIch bachbogh mang'e'. => No translation given here or
> > below, so you have a chance to read such sentences for yourself and
> > decide what they mean. It's not clear from your question whether your
> > issue is with how to correctly place -'e', how to interpret it, or why
> > you'd want the darn thing in the first place.
> > lo'laHbe' HIch'e' bachbogh mang.  => Either a soldier or a handgun can
> > be useless, so the -'e' is useful here to indicate which is the
> > useless item in each sentence. It's still not required.  qunnoq HoD
> > could watch a soldier fire a handgun and proclaim "lo'laHbe'!" without
> > telling his audience whether it was the personnel or equipment of which
> he disapproved.
> >
> > And here's a bonus sixth sentence to show the power of not using -'e'.
> >
> > chalDaq Qob nIn Hutlhbogh muD Duj.
> >
> > It says two things at once, both true. It's also okay if the reader
> > takes just one meaning and moves on.
> >
> > Personally, I only use -'e' in relative clauses if I think that
> > without it, an intelligent reader will take a meaning I didn't intend,
> > or if the sentence is sufficiently complex that -'e' will help the
> > reader know when the relative clause ends.
> >
> > - Qov
> >
> >> mu'tlhegh qon be'. = The woman wrote a sentence.
> >> mu'tlhegh qonbogh be' vIlaD. = I read the sentence the woman  wrote.
> >> (I could use -'e' here, but it's obvious that you don't read a woman,
> >> so why bother).
> >> mu'tlhegh qonbogh be' vIparHa'. = I like the sentence the woman
> >> wrote. OR
> > I
> >> like the woman who wrote the sentence.
> >> mu'tlhegh'e' qonbogh be' vIparHa'. = I like the sentence the woman
> wrote.
> >> OR It's the sentence the woman wrote that I like.
> >> mu'tlhegh qonbogh be''e' vIparHa'. = I like the woman who wrote the
> >> sentence. OR It's the woman who wrote the sentence that I like.
> >>
> >> There's my five. I hope your plan works and once you get a good
> >> collection
> > of
> >> examples, it falls into place.
> >>
> >> - Qov
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: mayql qunenoS [mailto:mihkoun at gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: January 17, 2016 2:32
> >>> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
> >>> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: {-'e'} and {-bogh}
> >>>
> >>> qavan 'arHa'
> >>>
> >>> this may be an unusual request for the KLBC, however I will ask,
> >>> because I can't seem to understand the use of {-'e'} when the
> >>> {-bogh} comes into
> >> play..
> >>>
> >>> could you write 5 sentences of your own, where there is {-bogh}, and
> >>> the
> >> {-
> >>> 'e'} used to distinguish where the {-bogh} refers ?
> >>>
> >>> I'm asking that you write 5 sentences of your own, because I have
> >>> already studied the TKD sentences and I didn't understand. Also, I'm
> >>> not trying to write my own sentences, because I have no jay' idea
> >>> how the ghe'tor I'm supposed to use {-bogh} and {-'e'} together.
> >>>
> >>> thanks
> >>>
> >>> cpt qunnoq
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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