[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: {-'e'} and {-bogh}

Mon Jan 18 06:19:13 PST 2016

bIlugh net Sov. roD bIlughtaH. QInvetlh vIjonDI’, poH vIHutlh, ‘ej jInongchoH! nIn poQbe’ ‘op muDDuj ‘e’ DalIjlaw’. ‘orwI’ SoH, ‘ej ngoDbej DalIjlaw’. bIlIjchugh SoH, qawtaH ‘Iv? vaj SIbI’ jIQIjnIS. ‘ej *iPad* vIlo’taHvIS, Qatlhqu’ tlhIngan Hol vIlo’meH Qu’wIj.

QIntetlhvam Qu’ vIbuSHa’pu’mo’ jItlhIj.

lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh
Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably

> On Jan 17, 2016, at 11:53 PM, qov at kli.org wrote:
> 
> tlhIngan Hol bopbe' 'ej lo'be' QInlIj.  qechmeylIj Dalabqa'chugh, Hol qar
> Dalo'taHvIS chaq vIqelqangchoH.
> 
> - Qov
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lojmIt tI'wI' nuv [mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com]
>> Sent: January 17, 2016 20:34
>> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: {-'e'} and {-bogh}
>> 
>> As a former student glider pilot, I object to the suggestion that an
> aircraft
>> lacking fuel is necessarily dangerous. Gliders are aircraft, they are
> specifically
>> designed to lack fuel, and they are not particularly dangerous. I
> personally
>> feel much more secure landing a glider than a powered aircraft, since
> spoilers
>> and slipping give at least as much control over glide slope as a throttle
> during
>> a normal landing, and visibility is better without an engine and an
> excessive
>> dashboard in the way.
>> 
>> Give me an air speed indicator, an altimeter, and a yaw string, with good
>> visibility and I'm happy to land with no fuel. And if I crash, at least
> there won't
>> be a fire.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
>> 
>>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 4:33 PM, <qov at kli.org> <qov at kli.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So I do have something else to do, but I'm sad that there are no more
>>> example sentences, so I'm going to write some more.
>>> 
>>> HIch bach mang. = The soldier shoots the pistol. (Yeah, the official
>>> gloss is "handgun" but I looked up both handgun and pistol in the
>>> Canadian Oxford and the definitions are too close to identical to whine
>> about).
>>> Duy' HIch bachbogh mang. = The pistol the soldier shoots is defective.
>>> It could be interpreted that it was the soldier who was defective, but
>>> unless it's a robosoldier, 'defective' isn't a word that would
>>> normally be used for a soldier. After reading the word Duy', I'm
>>> primed to look for a physical object to be the subject of the
>>> sentence, so I latch onto HIch and read it correctly without the help of
> -'e'.
>>> tlhIv HIch bachbogh mang. = The soldier who shoots the pistol is
>>> insubordinate. Again, unless we're dealing with advanced AI, there's
>>> only one side of the -bogh clause that can be the subject of the verb,
>>> so reading it I disregard HIch as a possible subject and keep reading to
>> mang.
>>> lo'laHbe' HIch bachbogh mang'e'. => No translation given here or
>>> below, so you have a chance to read such sentences for yourself and
>>> decide what they mean. It's not clear from your question whether your
>>> issue is with how to correctly place -'e', how to interpret it, or why
>>> you'd want the darn thing in the first place.
>>> lo'laHbe' HIch'e' bachbogh mang.  => Either a soldier or a handgun can
>>> be useless, so the -'e' is useful here to indicate which is the
>>> useless item in each sentence. It's still not required.  qunnoq HoD
>>> could watch a soldier fire a handgun and proclaim "lo'laHbe'!" without
>>> telling his audience whether it was the personnel or equipment of which
>> he disapproved.
>>> 
>>> And here's a bonus sixth sentence to show the power of not using -'e'.
>>> 
>>> chalDaq Qob nIn Hutlhbogh muD Duj.
>>> 
>>> It says two things at once, both true. It's also okay if the reader
>>> takes just one meaning and moves on.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I only use -'e' in relative clauses if I think that
>>> without it, an intelligent reader will take a meaning I didn't intend,
>>> or if the sentence is sufficiently complex that -'e' will help the
>>> reader know when the relative clause ends.
>>> 
>>> - Qov
>>> 
>>>> mu'tlhegh qon be'. = The woman wrote a sentence.
>>>> mu'tlhegh qonbogh be' vIlaD. = I read the sentence the woman  wrote.
>>>> (I could use -'e' here, but it's obvious that you don't read a woman,
>>>> so why bother).
>>>> mu'tlhegh qonbogh be' vIparHa'. = I like the sentence the woman
>>>> wrote. OR
>>> I
>>>> like the woman who wrote the sentence.
>>>> mu'tlhegh'e' qonbogh be' vIparHa'. = I like the sentence the woman
>> wrote.
>>>> OR It's the sentence the woman wrote that I like.
>>>> mu'tlhegh qonbogh be''e' vIparHa'. = I like the woman who wrote the
>>>> sentence. OR It's the woman who wrote the sentence that I like.
>>>> 
>>>> There's my five. I hope your plan works and once you get a good
>>>> collection
>>> of
>>>> examples, it falls into place.
>>>> 
>>>> - Qov
>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: mayql qunenoS [mailto:mihkoun at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: January 17, 2016 2:32
>>>>> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: {-'e'} and {-bogh}
>>>>> 
>>>>> qavan 'arHa'
>>>>> 
>>>>> this may be an unusual request for the KLBC, however I will ask,
>>>>> because I can't seem to understand the use of {-'e'} when the
>>>>> {-bogh} comes into
>>>> play..
>>>>> 
>>>>> could you write 5 sentences of your own, where there is {-bogh}, and
>>>>> the
>>>> {-
>>>>> 'e'} used to distinguish where the {-bogh} refers ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm asking that you write 5 sentences of your own, because I have
>>>>> already studied the TKD sentences and I didn't understand. Also, I'm
>>>>> not trying to write my own sentences, because I have no jay' idea
>>>>> how the ghe'tor I'm supposed to use {-bogh} and {-'e'} together.
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks
>>>>> 
>>>>> cpt qunnoq
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> Tlhingan-hol at kli.org
>>>>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>>> 
>>>> 
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