[Tlhingan-hol] Ten Commandments in Klingon

Sun Apr 17 05:56:43 PDT 2016

Got  a few minutes waiting for paperwork.

> Yes, most commands in the Torah are second person singular in the original
> Hebrew. The nation Israel is generally treated as a collective singular in
the
> law codes, including the Ten Commandments.

Ah, that makes it make sense. They just felt so much like commands to a
group.  

> I was (briefly) working on a PhD in Biblical Hebrew a couple years ago,
actually.

Excellent. Knowing the source in more than one language can be very helpful
in translating into Klingon, because it allows you to triangulate in on the
meaning of phrases that could be translated in more than one way--like
stupid English that lost its second person singular.

> munungbe' latlh Qunpu'. Datoy'Qo'.  Would that be more natural in Klingon?

You'd want the imperative for the second sentence. You could also say
munungbogh latlh Qunpu' tItoy'Qo'. Both Klingon versions kinda imply that
there ARE other gods, but that the Hebrew God doesn't want them getting
front row seats. Does the original allow this interpretation?  There's also
the possibility of latlh qunpu' HInungmoHQo'.  Can you understand that one?
It uses something we call the prefix trick to indicate both a direct and
indirect object.  I think it has less of an implication that such other gods
exist.

- Qov

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robyn Stewart [mailto:robyn at flyingstart.ca]
> Sent: April 17, 2016 6:17
> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Ten Commandments in Klingon
> 
> On my way to go fly again, so some quick examples. I see 'arHa is back so
he'll
> fill you in on the details:
> 
> Dun mu'mey DalaDbogh. = The words you read are wonderful.
> 
> juHwIj Such loD DaqIHbogh. = The man you met visited my house.
> 
> HoHbogh loD vImuS. = I hate the man who kills.
> 
> targh Qorghbogh be''e' parHa' yIH muSbogh loD'e'. The man who hates
> tribbles likes the woman who cares for targs
> 
> Each verb in the sentence has its subject and object in OVS order.
> Theoptional  -'e' suffix disambiguates so you know it's the man who likes
the
> woman and not the tribbles liking the targs, or some other combination.
> 
> - Qov
> 
> These comments are very helpful. Thank you. I'm still struggling with the
> syntax of subordinate clauses, and relative clauses in particular. Since
they
> function adjectivally, I figured that they would come after the nouns they
> modify in Klingon. I will just need more exposure to example sentences
with
> these types of constructions.
> 
> You are right about "no other Gods before me." I couldn't find "before" in
my
> lexicon, but I hadn't considered looking up "precede" and so I settled for
a
> spatial rendering. But with two verbs ("precede" and "have"), I'm
wondering
> if it would be better to somehow break them up into two sentences:
> munungbe' latlh Qunpu'. Datoy'Qo'. Would that be more natural in Klingon?
> 
> Yes, most commands in the Torah are second person singular in the original
> Hebrew. The nation Israel is generally treated as a collective singular in
the
> law codes, including the Ten Commandments. I was (briefly) working on a
> PhD in Biblical Hebrew a couple years ago, actually.
> 
> -qayl
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:55 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn at flyingstart.ca> wrote:
> Two flights later, refulled and put away the plane, ate dinner, and no one
> else has picked this up? Apologies to 'arHa if you're getting to this.
 I'm sure
> you will have more to say that I missed on the meanings.
> 
> General comment: starts out a bit too slavishly translating the
word-for-word
> of the original, rather than the meaning, like a computer encoding, but
you
> get into the swing of things as you go along.
> 
> Some things work in English but not in Klingon.  Were I not familiar with
the
> original, I would have no idea what that qaqemta'bogh was supposed to be
> attached to.  Break up long English sentences into shorter Klingon ones.
> 
> I'm not a biblical scholar, but doesn't "no other Gods before me" mean "in
> priority over me" or "preceding me" and not "in the area in front of me,"
as
> you have written?  Klingon does not use the same vocabulary for place and
> time.
> 
> The word tuq designates house as in "line, family".  For house of slavery
you
> probably want bIghHa' or qach.
> 
> Is it really second person singular throughout in the original?  Some of
these
> seem really weird in the singular.  Maybe check the King James to see if
they
> are thou or you. Or better the source language if you know it.
>  There will be a few people here who do, perhaps one will correct me.
> 
> nagh mIllogh seems like you were trying to say nagh beQ and forgot the
full
> term.  The definition of graven I found is  1. deeply impressed; firmly
fixed.
> 3. carved; sculptured. Not necessarily stone. Consider also the vocabulary
> Hew, nan, ru'Ha'.  Note spelling of ghItlh.
> 
> pong yIrammoHQo’ - very nice : here you translated the meaning, not the
> words.
> 
> Klingons have a six day week.  They mapped their week names to ours
> starting with Monday. When they encounter a culture that has more days in
> a week than theirs they add numbered days starting with jaj wa'.  Sunday
is
> jaj wa' in Klingon.
> 
> A phrase using -meH must always precede the verb it modifies.
> 
> There's no N in tlhIngan Hol.
> 
> Remember OVS and rewrite this sentence with the subject of each verb in
> the correct position: mu’mey ngeb tIjatlhQo’ jIllI’ lubopbogh. I realize
now
> that's what you were trying to do with qaqemta'bogh, too.  That should
help
> you fix it.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: qov at kli.org [mailto:qov at kli.org]
> Sent: April 16, 2016 7:56
> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Ten Commandments in Klingon
> 
> The Klingon for Egypt is maSIr. If you don't know the Klingon equivalent
for a
> proper noun, the recommended practice is to write is as you would in the
> source language and surround it with asterisks, e.g. *Mali* DoQ mangghom.
> 
> And my flight has just been called, so I haven't read past that.
> 
> - Qov
> 
> Please correct me if you see any errors below, or if there may be a better
> way to translate them:
> 
> joH’a’ QunlI’ jIH ‘ejIpt puHvo’ toy’wI’’a’pu’ tuqvo’je qaqemta’bogh.
> tlhopwIjDaq latlh Qunpu’ tIghajQo’.
> I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of
the
> house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:2-3)
> 
> SoHvaD nagh mIlloghmey tIgItlhQo'.
> You shall not make for yourself graven images. (Exodus 20:4)
> 
> joH’a’ QunlI’ pong yIrammoHQo’.
> You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. (Exodus 20:7)
> 
> jaj SochDIch yIqaw Dale’qu’moHmeH.
> Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:8)
> 
> vavlI’ SoSlI’je tIquvmoH.
> Honor your father and your mother. (Exodus 20:12)
> 
> yIchotQo’.
> You shall not murder. (Exodus 20:13)
> 
> tlhoghlIj yImaghQo’.
> You shall not commit adultery. (Exodus 20:14)
> 
> yINIHQo’.
> You shall not steal. (Exodus 20:15)
> 
> mu’mey ngeb tIjatlhQo’ jIllI’ lubopbogh.
> You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (Exodus 20:16)
> 
> yIghalQo’.
> You shall not covet. (Exodus 20:17)
> 
> -qayl
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
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