[Tlhingan-hol] Piraha

[qunnoQ HoD]

> The lines are from the paq’batlh (PB), so we’re stuck with the somewhat
“poetic/literary” (vs. strictly literal) translations

ok, i understand now. but since this brings up something I would ask in
another post all by itself, I will seize the opportunity and ask the
question here..

I,am a beginner ; currently I'm studying TKD,and as soon as I finish I will
start reading -slowly- other publications (tao te ching,gilgamesh,carols
etc).  In which of the Kliingon books published so far (aforementioned plus
hamlet and much ado) is the translation as strictly literal as possible ?

If i start reading books where the translation is poetic,then I will be
confused since I'm a beginner,and will not know whether I'm wrong or the
translation is given somewhat in a more free manner..

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 6:43 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu> wrote:

> The lines are from the paq’batlh (PB), so we’re stuck with the somewhat
> “poetic/literary” (vs. strictly literal) translations:
>
>
>
>   *loDnI'wI' bIQeHba' chaq batlh bIvangqa'laH *
>
>   My brother, I see your anger, you might have a chance
>
>  to make amends.  PB
>
>   *chaq tugh batlh Heghmo' 'ej chaq tugh charghmo'*
>
>   For they may soon die with honor! For they may soon be victorious! PB
>
>   *reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH*
>
>   Let endless battle and honor await them! PB
>
>   *jIlay'DI' reH batlh jIpabchugh Qapla'meywIj Hoch vIta'ta' 'e' DaHar'a'*
>
>   Did you think that my word of honor would have carried me this far? PB
>
> Compare this last line with:
>
>
>
>   *bIleghlaH jIlay'ta' 'ej batlh jIpabta'*
>
>   As you see, I have kept my word PB
>
> A couple more examples with two adverbials:
>
>
>
>   *batlh naDev SuDab*
>
>   Welcome to this place PB
>
>
>
> *  batlh maHeghbej 'ej yo' qIjDaq vavpu'ma' DImuv*.
>
>   *pa' reH maSuvtaHqu'.*
>
>   Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the
>
>    Black Fleet where we battle forever. (Anthem)
>
> OTOH see this earlier example from the Hallmark commercial where Okrand
> repeated the verb:
>
>
>
> *  pIj maSuvpu'* *batlh maSuvpu' 'ej maQapbejta'*
>
>   In our many battles, we have fought with honor
>
>   and achieved VICTORY! (Hallmark)
>
> --
>
> Voragh
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* qunnoQ HoD [mailto:mihkoun at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2015 10:04 AM
>
> > {tugh batlh Heghmo’} "soon he dies with honor"
>
> i'm sorry to lead this discussion of track,but {-mo'} as i just
> saw,translates to <<due to,because of>>.
>
> why is then the translation <<soon he dies with honor>> and not <<soon he
> dies because of honor>> ?
>
>
> > {reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH} "they always fight with honor"
>
> {reH} always
>
> {batlh} honor
>
> {Suv} to fight
>
> {-taH} continuous
>
> {-jaj} may
>
> {chaH} they
>
> why <<they always fight with honor>> and not <<may they keep fighting with
> honor>> ?
>
> qunnoQ HoD
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Lieven <levinius at gmx.de> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what the initial question was, but these examples do not show
> a real answer, in my opinion. All of the multiple adverbials are actually
> time stamps plus adverb, so not really "TWO" adverbs.
> The only rule we can see here, is that time stamps come first:
>
> {tugh batlh Heghmo’}
> "soon he dies with honor"
>
> {reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH}
> "they always fight with honor"
>
> I don't see two adverbials here, unless you see vaj as one, which I see
> more as a conjunction:
>
> > Hay’chu’ luneHqu’
>
> vaj pe’vIl joqqu’
> cha’ tlhIngan tIqDu’
>
>
> Any examples with true aderbials or adverbs of the same type??
>
>
>
> --
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh
> Grammarian of the KLI
> http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
> http://www.klingonwiki.net
>
>
>
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>
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