[Tlhingan-hol] Fwd: Catholic priest seeks recording of prayer in Klingon

[Robyn Stewart]

I thought about this while I was flying (sent it just before leaving) and I
at first stumbled over bISop - reading it as "you eat". Is there any dialect
where it's actually pronounced that way?  where I live it's more like bISIp
or bISap.  I kind of liked bISap, because an accidental misreading as the
verb sort of suits it.

 

From: David Holt [mailto:kenjutsuka at live.com] 
Sent: August 15, 2014 19:24
To: tlhingan-hol at kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Fwd: Catholic priest seeks recording of prayer
in Klingon

 

ghItlh voragh:

 

> Was Isidor a medical doctor - i.e. a physician {Qel} - or a doctor of
philosophy? If the latter, call him a {ghojmoHwI'} "teacher". As

> someone pointed out earlier a bishop is etymologically an overseer, so
either {vu'wI'} "manager" or {loHwI'} "magistrate" (lit.

> "administrator") work.

 

"Bishop" is a specialized term and all of the translations on Fr. Z's page
use one of the various transliterations of it, so I am happy to do the same.
As for "Doctor", I am much less familiar with Latin and didn't realize that
it actually meant teacher.  As far as I can tell, Isidore was not a medical
physician, but is definitely described as an educator, so I have to decide
whether to transliterate it or translate it.  I don't think "Doctor" is as
well known a term among followers of the Roman church and I think I prefer a
translation in this instance.

 

ghItlh Qov:

 

> {bISop} Qel je {San 'ISIDor} 'ej nuboQ 'e' wIqoy'.  

> The 'ej in this sentence seems misplaced. Is the sentence supposed to be:

> nuboQ {bISop} Qel je {San 'ISIDor} 'e' wIqoy'.

 

DopDaq qul yIchenmoH QobDI' ghu' - I left out a verb.  It was supposed to
say:  {bISop} Qel je ghaH {San 'ISIDor'e'} 'ej nuboQ 'e' wIqoy'.

 

Though, the apposition might be better, so I'm actually going to go with
Qov's.

 

> yIghoSmoH --> tIghoSmoH

 

HIja'

 

> wIghomboghvaD - the -vaD belongs on the noun, not the verb, and shouldn't
it be DI-?

 

I wasn't sure about the {-vaD}, so I checked in TKD and it only said, "The
whole construction (relative clause plus head noun), as a unit, is used in a
sentence as a noun."  But if you say the {-vaD} goes on the actual noun, I'm
happy to go with that.  I'll address {wI-} vs. {DI-} below.

 

> Review the rules for Hoch: you may find you need nuvpu' to convey the
meaning you want.

 

I think I actually prefer {Hoch nuv}, but {Hoch nuvpu'} does more closely
match the originals.  I have no way to support this, but I felt like {Hoch
nuv} should use {wI-} and {Hoch nuvpu'} should use {DI-}.

 

ghItlh ghunchu'wI':

 

> <pIrurmeH juchenmoH> vImaS.

 

It feels a little like it could be an explanation of why he didn't give the
job to one of his underlings, but I don't have any strong objections to it,
so I'll change it.

 

> I don't like how {SoHvo' boghbogh puqloD} seems to imply

> a physical "born from" which would naturally apply to the mother.

> I think {puqloD DaboghmoHbogh} works a lot better. Also, {neH}

> here feels inappropriate to me. Perhaps {mob} would be preferable.

 

I'm fine with your sentence suggestion, but {mob} seems to imply more of a
"lonely" type of alone and {neH} a "singularly" type of alone.  Am I alone
in that or do any of the advance speakers disagree with ghunchu'wI' here?

 

> [I thought {QIStoS} was the accepted transliteration, but I'm not a
student of the original Greek text.]

 

As I said previously (though you may have missed it), for this project I am
ignoring the Greek texts (which definitely end the title in "s"), since this
prayer was actually written in Liturgical Latin and English.  In the Roman
church, a number of different variations are used (I imagine they are
declensions of the Latin), but as I looked through the various translations
on Fr. Z's blog, the most common transliterations ended in "o".

 

> Instead of a {ghaHbogh} phrase, simple apposition ought to work:
{joH'a'ma'vo' QISto'vo'}. Skybox SP1 gives a perfect example of

> this, with the phrase {juHqo'vo' Qo'noSvo'}.

 

The {ghaHbogh} phrase bothered me, but I wasn't comfortable for how I should
do apposition.  I'll change it.

 

ghItlh voragh:

 

> FYI: from KGT (p. 152f.) we have the slang term {Ho'} "idol, someone
worthy of emulation" which might work for saint.

 

It certainly seems like a likely definition to be used by Romans, though,
being a follower of a reformed church myself, I would prefer {choqwI'}.
However, the Romans tend to use variation of the Latin rather than translate
it and that holds true for the majority of the translations on Fr. Z's page.

 

So here's where I am now:

 

weQmoQnaQDaq bIrarpa' tayvam yIjatlh:

 

'o Qun'a', SoH HoS law' Hoch HoS puS 'ej reH bItaHtaH.  pIrurmeH juchenmoH.
Hoch QaQ, Hoch teH, Hoch 'IH je DInej 'e' Dara'.  puqloD DaboghmoHbogh neH
ghaH {yeSu' QISto''e'} 'ej Qun porgh ghaH 'ej joH'a'ma' ghaH.  ghaHDaq
QaQwI', teHwI', 'IHwI' je DInejnIS je.  nuboQ {bISop} ghojmoHwI' je {San
'ISIDor} 'e' wIqoy'.  weQmoQnaQDaq malengtaHvIS ghopDu'majvaD mInDu'majvaD
je nIbelmoHbogh Dochmey neH tIghoSmoH 'ej Hoch nuvpu' DIghomboghvaD
ghoberghHa'moH 'ej ghotuvmoH.  joH'a'ma'vo' QISto'vo' wItlhob.  {'amen}.

 

Jeremy

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