[Tlhingan-hol] Fwd: Catholic priest seeks recording of prayer in Klingon

[David Holt]

ghItlh voragh:
> Was Isidor a medical doctor - i.e. a physician {Qel} - or a doctor of philosophy? If the latter, call him a {ghojmoHwI'} "teacher". As> someone pointed out earlier a bishop is etymologically an overseer, so either {vu'wI'} "manager" or {loHwI'} "magistrate" (lit.> "administrator") work.
"Bishop" is a specialized term and all of the translations on Fr. Z's page use one of the various transliterations of it, so I am happy to do the same.  As for "Doctor", I am much less familiar with Latin and didn't realize that it actually meant teacher.  As far as I can tell, Isidore was not a medical physician, but is definitely described as an educator, so I have to decide whether to transliterate it or translate it.  I don't think "Doctor" is as well known a term among followers of the Roman church and I think I prefer a translation in this instance.
ghItlh Qov:
> {bISop} Qel je {San ‘ISIDor} ‘ej nuboQ ‘e’ wIqoy’.  > The ‘ej in this sentence seems misplaced. Is the sentence supposed to be:> nuboQ {bISop} Qel je {San ‘ISIDor} ‘e’ wIqoy’.
DopDaq qul yIchenmoH QobDI' ghu' - I left out a verb.  It was supposed to say:  {bISop} Qel je ghaH {San 'ISIDor'e'} 'ej nuboQ 'e' wIqoy'.
Though, the apposition might be better, so I'm actually going to go with Qov's.
> yIghoSmoH --> tIghoSmoH
HIja'
> wIghomboghvaD – the -vaD belongs on the noun, not the verb, and shouldn’t it be DI-?
I wasn't sure about the {-vaD}, so I checked in TKD and it only said, "The whole construction (relative clause plus head noun), as a unit, is used in a sentence as a noun."  But if you say the {-vaD} goes on the actual noun, I'm happy to go with that.  I'll address {wI-} vs. {DI-} below.
> Review the rules for Hoch: you may find you need nuvpu’ to convey the meaning you want.
I think I actually prefer {Hoch nuv}, but {Hoch nuvpu'} does more closely match the originals.  I have no way to support this, but I felt like {Hoch nuv} should use {wI-} and {Hoch nuvpu'} should use {DI-}.
ghItlh ghunchu'wI':
> <pIrurmeH juchenmoH> vImaS.
It feels a little like it could be an explanation of why he didn't give the job to one of his underlings, but I don't have any strong objections to it, so I'll change it.
> I don't like how {SoHvo' boghbogh puqloD} seems to imply> a physical "born from" which would naturally apply to the mother.> I think {puqloD DaboghmoHbogh} works a lot better. Also, {neH}> here feels inappropriate to me. Perhaps {mob} would be preferable.
I'm fine with your sentence suggestion, but {mob} seems to imply more of a "lonely" type of alone and {neH} a "singularly" type of alone.  Am I alone in that or do any of the advance speakers disagree with ghunchu'wI' here?
> [I thought {QIStoS} was the accepted transliteration, but I'm not a student of the original Greek text.]
As I said previously (though you may have missed it), for this project I am ignoring the Greek texts (which definitely end the title in "s"), since this prayer was actually written in Liturgical Latin and English.  In the Roman church, a number of different variations are used (I imagine they are declensions of the Latin), but as I looked through the various translations on Fr. Z's blog, the most common transliterations ended in "o".
> Instead of a {ghaHbogh} phrase, simple apposition ought to work: {joH'a'ma'vo' QISto'vo'}. Skybox SP1 gives a perfect example of> this, with the phrase {juHqo'vo' Qo'noSvo'}.
The {ghaHbogh} phrase bothered me, but I wasn't comfortable for how I should do apposition.  I'll change it.
ghItlh voragh:
> FYI: from KGT (p. 152f.) we have the slang term {Ho'} "idol, someone worthy of emulation" which might work for saint.
It certainly seems like a likely definition to be used by Romans, though, being a follower of a reformed church myself, I would prefer {choqwI'}.  However, the Romans tend to use variation of the Latin rather than translate it and that holds true for the majority of the translations on Fr. Z's page.
So here's where I am now:
weQmoQnaQDaq bIrarpa' tayvam yIjatlh:
'o Qun'a', SoH HoS law' Hoch HoS puS 'ej reH bItaHtaH.  pIrurmeH juchenmoH.  Hoch QaQ, Hoch teH, Hoch 'IH je DInej 'e' Dara'.  puqloD DaboghmoHbogh neH ghaH {yeSu' QISto''e'} 'ej Qun porgh ghaH 'ej joH'a'ma' ghaH.  ghaHDaq QaQwI', teHwI', 'IHwI' je DInejnIS je.  nuboQ {bISop} ghojmoHwI' je {San 'ISIDor} 'e' wIqoy'.  weQmoQnaQDaq malengtaHvIS ghopDu'majvaD mInDu'majvaD je nIbelmoHbogh Dochmey neH tIghoSmoH 'ej Hoch nuvpu' DIghomboghvaD ghoberghHa'moH 'ej ghotuvmoH.  joH'a'ma'vo' QISto'vo' wItlhob.  {'amen}.
Jeremy 		 	   		  
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