[Tlhingan-hol] Use of -'e'

[David Trimboli]

On 5/2/2013 10:45 PM, nIqolay q wrote:
> The canon phrase "qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS" suggests
> that a noun phrase with -'e' can be used to specify a group or set to
> which the rest of the sentence applies, and I was wondering if this
> interpretation is well-accepted, and if so, if it could be easily
> generalized.

{SuvwI''e'} is behaving normally as the TOPIC of the sentence. "This 
sentence is about warriors." This sentence is the only example of -'e' 
in the "header" space.

-'e' is described in TKD as being a topicalizer, but then the examples 
it shows are not topics, but emphasis. In an issue of HolQeD, Marc 
Okrand accepted this correction by Will Martin. This correction came 
after THE FINAL FRONTIER, which included the line you quote with the 
topic noun.

I generally accept sentences with topic-nouns—they follow the rules and 
there is that single example. However, you must be careful not to try to 
cram the wrong kind of information into a topic. If you can't extract 
the topic noun and stick "this sentence is about <noun>" and still have 
it make sense, then you need to recast.

> 1) nuHmeywIj'e' betleHvetlh ngo' law' Hoch ngo' puS ("That bat'leth is
> the oldest weapon I have.") is probably okay, it's just the same
> format as the canon sentence.

"This sentence is about my weapons: that bat'leth is the oldest." I 
accept this.

> 2) tera'nganpu''e' bIyoHqu' ("You're pretty brave for a Terran.")

"This sentence is about Terrans: you are BRAVE." I find this less 
acceptable, but not completely unacceptable. {bIyoHqu'} doesn't imply a 
second party the way the comparative does—you need a second party to 
compare with. If you can make the mental leap to {SoH yoH law' tera'ngan 
motlh yoH puS}, it could work, but I'd rather see it recast.

> 3) juppu'lI''e' muqaDqang 'Iv ("Who among your friends is willing to
> face me?") seems the least likely to be acceptable, it's similar in
> format to a "which" question ("Which of your friends...") and those
> are typically phrased as imperatives with ngu'.

"This sentence is about your friends: who is willing to challenge me?" 
This is find acceptable, as you're asking for a third party, and you 
know the topic includes potential third parties.

You can further emphasize the appropriateness of the topic by putting it 
at the beginning of the translation with a full-stop after it (and don't 
interpret it as exasperation):

"My weapons. That bat'leth is the oldest." Good
"Terrans. You are BRAVE." Bad
"Your friends. Who is willing to challenge me?" Good

-- 
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/