[Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Monopoly: another card

[De'vID jonpIn]

bI'reng:

> > Some speculation: while Okrand defines {net} as being used when the
> > subject of the verb is "one, someone", the examples given in TKD seem to
> > mean "people in general" (eg, qama'pu' DIHoH net Sov). Maybe he avoided
> > {net} because "people in general" did not choose the player to join the
> yan
> > 'ISletlh, but some specific unnamed person. In that case, maybe {'e'
> wIvlu'} is
> > the way to go. Some more examples of {'e'} and {net} from canon might
> > clarify the issue.
>

SuStel:

> He's done it before:
>
> yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'
> survival must be earned
>
> yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'
> victory myst be earned
>
> (TKW 125)
>
> Both of these are talking about people in general, and not a specific,
> unnamed person. I see no reason to believe that {'e'} and {net} distinguish
> between these. If talking about a specific, unnamed person, I would expect
> to see {vay'}.


It's possible that MO simply made a mistake.  Nevertheless, it's not out of
the question that {'e' X-lu'} and {net X} are used differently.  Here is
some more speculation.

Perhaps {net} is used in those instances where, were the sentence to be
expressed in the passive voice (in English), the object of {net} would
naturally be the subject of the passive voice sentence.  For instance:

    {T net Sov} "It is known that T" => "T is known"
    {T net legh} "It is seen that T" => "T is seen"

In the above, "it" (in "it is known" or "it is seen") refers to the
sentence T (e.g., T = {qama'pu' DIHoH}).  But note that in the translation
of the following sentence into passive voice, "it" is not the natural
subject:

    {Damuv 'e' wIvlu'} "someone chooses that you join it" => "*you* are
chosen to join it"

The subject of "to be chosen" is not the *sentence* "you join it", but the *
pronoun* "you".  Or, if you will, you can say that in the sentence {X 'e'
Y-lu'}, the verb Y shares the subject with the verb of the sentence X.
 Contrast this with:

    {Damuv net wIv} "it is chosen that [you join it]" => "[you join it] is
chosen"

The topic or subject here is no longer "you", but the sentence "you join
it".  Similarly, consider the sentence:

    {yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'} "someone needs to earn that someone [the same
person] continues to live} => "*survival* must be earned", "*a person's
survival* must be earned *by that same person*"

In the above, the subject of {baj} is the *same* (indefinite) person as the
subject of {yIn}.  A person must earn *that person*'s own survival.  Again,
contrast this with:

    {yInlu'taH net bajnIS} "it must be earned that [someone continues to
live]" => "[someone continues to live] must be earned"

It is no longer clear that {baj} has the same subject as {yIn}.  Perhaps
someone (say, Kirk's son David Marcus) is being held hostage, and *someone
else* (Kirk) must earn the former's (David's) survival.

Note that in the other {'e' bajnISlu'} example, the preceding sentence's
verb also has {-lu'}:

    {yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'} "someone needs to earn that someone [the
same person] achieves victory" => "*victory* must be earned", "*the
achievement of a victory* must be earned *by the person who achieves it*"

With {net}, the meaning is not the same:

    {yay chavlu' net bajnIS} "it must be earned that [someone achieves
victory]" => "[someone achieves victory] must be earned (not necessarily by
the same person?)"

A sentence of the form {X-lu' 'e' Y-lu'} means that the verb Y has the same
indefinite subject as the verb X, whereas no such relationship exists
between the subjects of X and Y in {X-lu' net Y}.

More generally, a sentence of the form {X 'e' Y-lu'} means that the subject
of the sentence X is the object of the sentence Y.  Thus, {Damuv 'e'
wIvlu'} is like {Damuv; *SoH* DawIvlu'}, whereas {Damuv net wIv} is like
{Damuv; *'oH* wIvlu'}.

The above (highly speculative) theory fits the examples given in this
thread, at least.  Are there any canon examples that contradict it?

-- 
De'vID
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20111125/7ba80cdc/attachment.html>