[Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: DIvI'

[Robyn Stewart]

I teach a mnemonic snupo snaclupho

size, number, uncertainty, possession, other
self, need, alteration, cause, -laH/-lu, uncertainty,  perfective,
honorific, other

I don't use it, and I don't think you are asking for a way to stop and
figure out the order, but a way to have them just come out of your mouth in
the right order without thinking.  Practice is all you've got there.  There
isn't a great underlying logic.  And everyone occasionally puts a prefix
where it doesn't belong because it's an afterthought, or because they calced
(calcified?) a verb with some of its suffixes, especially -moH.  So it's
very common to hear things like *Say'moHqa' or *ghojmoHnIS. The latter
immediately strikes me as wrong, but the former could slide past me. They
are arbitrary. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mayql qunenoS [mailto:mihkoun at gmail.com]
> Sent: March 16, 2016 3:34
> To: tlhingan-hol at kli.org
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: DIvI'
> 
> thank you Qov and SuStel for taking the time to reply ; thank you too
voragh
> for sharing all those wonderful canon sentences !
> 
> After reading carefully (as I always do) your comments, these are my
> observations :
> 
> 1. I messed up (again) the order of the verb suffixes ; I really need to
find a
> way to remember their correct order. Unfortunately, so far, I have not
been
> able to do so. I remember the type 1, I remember the type 7, and the type
9 ;
> everything else in between is a blur. And what's even worst is that I
can't find
> a way to fix this problem. The noun suffixes follow a "logical" pattern
(at least
> in my head they do) ; the verb prefixes however seem somehow "arbitrary".
> Anyway, this seems to be a problem which will stay with me for a while, at
> least until I find a way to fix it.
> 
> 2. I read again this sentence {noH ghuHmeH DIvI'vetlh luchenmoHpu'
> vIghro'} (after sleep, coffee, etc) and I'm afraid that the fed,rested,
and
> caffein-filled self of today, will agree with the hungry, tired and sleepy
self of
> yesterday. Since on the {luchenmoHpu'} there is the prefix {lu-} this
means
> that we must have the they-him/her/it meaning expressed ; and indeed we
> have the {vIghro'} which by the use of this prefix are meant to be many,
and
> the federation as the object of the {luchenmoHpu'}. So, I can't understand
a
> way in which the {DIvI'} could be supposed not to be the object of the
> {luchenmoHpu'} but the object of the {ghuH} instead.
> 
> 3. I agree on the comments with regard to the use of {-vo'} on the
"cleansed
> the world from dogs" phrase. To confess my sin, I wasn't too happy about
it
> yesterday either. I went ahead and wrote it anyway, because my mind had
> stuck and I couldn't find any other way of describing the desired meaning.
> 
> 4. The {ghobrup} is a great idea to say "prepared for war". I realize now
that
> both {-rup} and {-beH} are wonderful suffixes, which for reasons unknown I
> always tend to forget their existence.
> 
> 5. ..and of course the whole noH/veS confusion. Perhaps I tend to confuse
> them, because now that I think of it, in greek we don't have a specific
word
> for "warfare". If I was thinking in english while I was writing in klingon
I would
> use {veS} ; apparently I was thinking in greek while I was writing in
klingon so
> I used {noH}. there are times my own mind puzzles me..
> 
> 6. I liked very much the {tugh taghpu' noH}. I remember now that way back,
> sometime, I wondered about whether I could use the {tagh} to describe that
> a war starts, however for reasons which currently elude me, I thought that
it
> couldn't be applied in such a way.
> 
> thank you very much Qov, SuStel, voragh je for replying !
> 
> mayqel mIv Hurgh qunnoq
> you have some stuffed to'baj leg in your teeth
> 
> ps: If someone knows a way of remembering the order of verb suffixes, I
> would be grateful if he told me too !
> 
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 8:40 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
> > mayql qunenoS wrote:
> >>> DIvI'chaj Degh yIlegh ! targhvaD jatlhpu' vIghro' la'. reH lIghIjchoH
> >>>   Deghvam !
> >>> look at our federation insiginia ! said the cat commander for the []
> >>> dogs. this symbol will make scared you forever !
> >
> > SuStel:
> >> I would leave off the {-choH}. It's not forever starting to scare
> >> them, and the idea of starting isn't really important here (according
> >> to your English translation). Just say {reH lIghIjchoH Deghvam}.
> >>
> >> You might even consider adding a {-jaj} to the sentence, though it's
> >> not essential.
> >
> > {ghIj} "scare" - not "be scared" - in canon:
> >
> >   jaghpu'lI' DaghIjjaj
> >   May you scare your enemies! PK
> >
> >   jaghmeylI' DaghIjjaj, qetjaj jaghmeylI'
> >   May you scare your enemies, may your enemies run. TKW
> >
> > [N.B. (TKD 23f):  This suffix [{-mey}] ... can also be used with nouns
> > referring to beings capable of using language (those nouns which take
> > {-pu'}). When it is so used, it adds a notion of "scattered all about"
> > to the meaning. Compare: {puq} "child", {puqpu'} "children", {puqmey}
> > "children all over the place".]
> >
> >   qo'mey Sar charghtaHvIS chaH Dat tlhIngan may'Duj luleghDI' neH qIb
> >     nganpu' buQpu' may'Duj 'ej ghIjpu' 'oH.  nIteb ghIjpu' je Deghvam
> >   this symbol grew to become as feared throughout the galaxy as the
> >     menacing profiles of their battlecruisers. (SkyBox SP1)
> >
> >   vay' DaghIjlaHchugh bIHoSghaj
> >   Fear is power. TKW
> >
> > ["The meaning of this saying, of course, is that one who has the
> > ability to instill fear can exert control over those who are afraid;
> > there is more to power than physical force." (TKW 109)]
> >
> >   not qoHpu''e' neH ghIjlu'
> >   Only fools have no fear. TKW
> >
> >   jIDoghqu' vIghIjlu'mo' 'ej bortaS vIneHmo' jIleghlaHbe' 'ach chovuvtaH
> >   What a fool I have been, blinded by fear and spite, and still you find
> >    me worthy. PB
> >
> > Other options are {Haj} "dread" and {lIm} "panic" - although I don't
> > know if Okrand has ever used either in sentences.  (Anything in the
> > paq'batlh?)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Voragh
> > tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a'
> > Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> >
> >
> >
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> 
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