[Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: Hoj

[qov at kli.org]

> I would need a LOT of context before {bIHojqu’chugh, HoD Qup, vaj DujlIj DatoD} to mean

I came in on this conversation here and deliberately stopped reading before I got to what someone-- I don't know who--proposed this to mean. Here are my possible interpretations:

"If you are very cautious, young captain, you will save your ship."  Do X now and in the future Y will happen. 
"If you were very cautious, young captain, then you have saved your ship." Have done X in the past and now you have Y.

> “If you were more cautious, young captain, then you would have saved your ship.” 

Which I almost wrote for the second instance, because there's not a lot of difference. Let me make a scenario where there is more difference, so I can think about it.

qaStaHvIS may', SuvwI' puS HoH bu'. rInDI' may', ghu' lupoj bu', Sogh je.

DuH wa':
-- jaghla' DaHoHta''a'?
-- jISovbe'. pumlaw' 'a SIbI' mun QaSDaj.
-- DaHoHta'chugh rIn noH.

DuH cha':
-- jaghla' DaHoHpu''a'?
-- ghobe'. vIleghpu' 'a luHub SuvwI'pu'Daj. 'op vIHoH 'a la''e' vISIchlaHbe'.
-- Do'Ha'. DaHoHta'chugh rIn noH.

DuH wej:
-- jaghla' DaHoHpu''a'?
-- ghobe'. qaStaHvIS may' Hublu'chu'. 
-- wa'leS ram raQchaj vIghoS 'ej pa' vIHoH.
-- majQa'! DaHoHta'chugh rIn noH.
 
1. Are all the DuHmey in acceptable Klingon?
2. The difference in English would be "If you have killed him, then the war is over," versus, "If you had killed him, then the war would be over," and "If you succeed in killing him, the war will be over."  Is there a difference in Klingon?  Is the grammar of the sentence stating that the end of the war is a consequence of the death depend on whether or not we know the commander is still alive?

I don't know.

Certainly Klingon currently lacks the tools to express what English does with "Had it been so, then ..."  or "Were it thus, then ..." but there are English speakers who don't use that grammar and they get by, showing that context can do the job. At a session with Mac two qep'a'mey ago the lack of an irrealis was mentioned to Marc and he appreciated what was being asked and thought about it, but hasn't returned with any solution.

Certainly never assume that one translation will be understood over another when there are different possible meanings to your Klingon.  If it is necessary that the reader understand something is in the past, present or future, put in a timestamp: it's the only way to know. If it's necessary that the reader know that something has or hasn't happened, say so.  The grammar isn't going to tell them.

- Qov