[Tlhingan-hol] ghIQlI'

[qov at kli.org]

> I just realized, I can't place the {-'a'} anywhere, because this is not a
yes/no question !
> 
> qunnoq

It's a little tricky, isn't it? You certainly can't put {-'a'} on the
{HoHmeH} because that would give you two type-9 verb suffixes on one verb.
Here are your two sentences:

> SuStel QeHmoHmeH nIDtaH'a' ghunchu'wI' ? pagh SuStel HoHmeH qetlhmoH'a'
neH ghunchu'wI' ?
> Is he trying to make SuStel angry ?  Or just bore him to death ?

One thing I really like here is your realization that you need to repeat the
names more often in Klingon than in English. That's normal and good
practice.

For the first sentence I would say either:
SuStel QeHmoHmeH vang'a' ghunchu'wI'? = Is he acting in order to make SuStel
mad?
or
SuStel QeHmoH 'e' nID'a' ghunchu'wI'? = Is he trying to make SuStel mad.

The way you have it suggests that he is trying something or just trying, in
order to make SuStel mad. You don't suspect that the trying would be in
order to make SuStel mad. You think that it's the doing that would induce
the anger.  Make sense? 

For the second sentence, remember that qetlh is "be dull" not "be bored". So
the sentence is not ungrammatical, but it means, "Does ghunchu'wI' want to
make it boring in order to kill SuStel."  You may already know that, and it
works fine, but I know how often non-native English speakers say things like
"I am very interesting in your story" -- it's easy to get the concepts mixed
up.

Now for the question you were really asking, the hard one. I'll write a
simpler sentence to illustrate it, because we know that ghunchu'wI' doesn't
go on vacation to anger or bore SuStel any more than SuStel wishes to
prevent ghunchu'wI' from going on vacation! The new sentence is "Do you cook
or do you go to restaurants?" It's easy in English, but gets a little weird
in Klingon:

{bIvut pagh Qe'mey DaghoS.} =  "Either you cook or you go to restaurants."
It's a statement. now how do you make it into a question?

Making it two questions works:  bIvut'a'? Qe'mey DaghoS'a'? The person
answers yes or no to each one, and everyone is happy.

There are English prescriptionists who refuse sentences beginning in
conjunctions, so I am sure there are Klingonists who reject: bIvut'a'? pagh
Qe'mey DaghoS'a'? I have no problem with it, and think the English
prescriptionists fell victim to English teachers casting too wide a net to
catch students who thought "or a cat" was a sentence.

If you write it as one sentence, it gets weird: bIvut'a' pagh Qe'mey
DaghoS'a'? You have two {-'a'}mey in one sentence and you're quite right: it
ceases to be a yes/no sentence, so the {-'a'}mey stop making sense. We don't
know for sure that this is wrong. English has a similar problem, that verb
inversion or adding "do"  is supposed to create yes/no sentences.

A common strategy to avoid this is to turn the question into a command:
bIvut pagh Qe'mey DaghoS. mIw Dalo'bogh yIngu'. 

You cheat. -> Do you cheat?
bIngor -> bIngor'a'?

You are smart. -> Are you smart?
bIval -> bIval'a'?

Do you cheat or are you smart? -> no longer a yes/no question.

bIval qoj bIngor. chay' bIQaptaH? = You cheat or you're smart or maybe both.
How do you keep winning?
bIval qoj bIngor. QapmeH mIwlIj yIngu'.
yIH, targh je DIghaj. Saj bomaSbogh yIwIv. = We have targs and tribbles. (or
"a targ and a tribble") Which pet do you want?

Computer programmers often jokingly answer questions like this with yes or
no, as if they were parsing a computer program, but it's not the way a
normal person answers. A person could also say "no and yes" to the two
questions, but the normal way to reply is in a full sentence that explains
the answer unambiguously. "I don't cheat. I just know the material well." "I
cheat because I'm smart enough to get away with it." Or {jIngor 'ej mupumDI'
vay' SIbI' vIHoH!} *DuQ* *bach*

Sengvetlh DaleghDI' lugh DujlIj.

  - Qov 'utlh
--
Online Klingon Course free to all KLI members:
http://www.kli.org/members-only/klcp-prep/




> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 8:22 PM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Qu'vatlh ! I just saw it !
> >
> > this is the correct sentence :
> >
> > pagh SuStel HoHmeH, ghaH qetlhmoH'a' neH ghunchu'wI' ?
> > or just bore him to death ?
> >
> > however, (fun part aside) I believe we could discuss, where I should
> > place the {-'a'} ; why on the {qetlhmoH} and not on the {HoHmeH} ?
> > could someone enlighten me ?
> >
> > cpt qunnoq
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 8:13 PM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> ghItlhpu' Qov :
> >>
> >>> bIcheghDI' SuStelvaD Daljaj lenglIj lut.
> >>
> >> hahaha ! ghunchu'wI' QIn wa'DIch vIlaDDI', SuStel vIqaw je !
> >> ..as soon as I read ghunchu'wI' 's first message, I remembered SuStel
too !
> >>
> >> jIQub : nuq nIDtaH ghunchu'wI' ? SuStel QeHmoHmeH nIDtaH'a'
> ghunchu'wI' ?
> >> I thought : what is ghunchu'wI' trying to do ? is he trying to make
> >> SuStel angry ?
> >>
> >> pagh SuStel HoHmeH qetlhmoH neH ghunchu'wI' ?
> >> or just bore him to death ?
> >>
> >> hahahaha
> >>
> >> cpt qunnoq
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 7:37 PM, Bellerophon, modeler
> >> <bellerophon.modeler at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> lenglIj lut vIlaD vIneH. DallaH lutlIj 'a jIlaDmeH laHwIj DubmoH.
> >>>
> >>> 'a nIteb mI''a' be'nallI'? nItebHa' SumI' 'e' vIpIH.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> mIp'av yergho
> >>> bu''a'
> >>> baHwI'
> >>> IKAV chuch 'etlh
> >>>
> >>> My modeling blog:          http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
> >>> My other modeling blog:  http://bellerophon.blog.com/
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> >>> Tlhingan-hol at kli.org
> >>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
> 
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