[Tlhingan-hol] Why Klingon is perfect

[mayql qunenoS]

lieven :

> This happens with most languages. Some are easy to translate, other
> nearly impossible, but if one knows nothing of a language, it's hard for
> any language.

I think that for Klingon it is way more difficult than other languages
; When I learned english, very soon after I started learning, I could
take a dictionary and translate virtually everything..

lieven :

> The latest word count I did revealed about 90 suffixes and about
> 1960 single words.

ok, you're right. However it all depends on how one composes his
dictionary, I created mine to be English-Klingon and I wrote it in an
"expanded" way ; for example I have an entry <aid, assistance boQ>,
and another entry <assistance, aid boQ>. The reason is simple ; maybe
I'm searching for the word <aid> but I don't remember that it has the
synonym <assistance>. If I only have <assistance, aid boQ> then I
wouldn't find what I wanted. In this way my dictionary has 3573 words.
I wrote however that Klingon has 2700 words, because I think that
lojmIt tI'wI' nuv had wrote so some time ago, so I thought "who am I
to argue ?" hehehe

jIH :

> 7. Because pIqaD can actually be writen by hand, in contrast to other
> conlangs' characters which are extremely difficult - even impossible -
> to write by hand.

lieven :

> Go tell a chinese that writing chinese is impossible! :-)

Actually I have told this to a japanese ! hehehe. However, it was
Vulcan that I had in mind.

lieven :

> Esperanto has only one page of grammar. (well, that would explain
> why so many people speak it)
> Indonesian language also has no tense.

I didn't know these facts. However Klingon is still superior, because
not only does it have each one (or similar) of these two attributes,
but because it has both of them, as well as all the other reasons
mentioned in the original mail.

nuq Hol mutlhlu'bogh Dun law' Hoch Dun puS ? Hoch nuv wuv 'oH 'a
jIHvaD tlhIngan Hol 'oH.
which language which has been constructed is the greatest of them all
? it depends on the individual, however for me it is Klingon.

Qov :

> Reveal the secret place where the ones like you who are
> willing to learn Klingon reside!
> chay' Hol Datu' 'ej chay' jutu'?
> Why did you take it up, start learning it.
> "If the way we acquired you can be useful again, then I want that we use it
> a thousand times."

muquvmoHqu' mu'meylIj 'ej vIqotlhbe'bej, 'a choghelmo' SoHvaD lutwIj vIja'..
your words honor me greatly and I definitely don't deserve it, however
because you ask I will tell you my story..

ben law', puq jIHtaHvIS muvuQ peghmey ; peghmey Dochmey je, luSo'lu'bogh.
many years ago, while I was a child secrets fascinated me ; secrets
and things that were hidden.

bItlhabmeH Dochmey DaSo'laHnIS reH 'e' vIHar.
I always believed that in order to be free, you need to be able to hide things.

bIQaDmeH Dochmey DapeghnISlaH.
In order to be safe, you need to be able to keep things secret.

vabDot Dajqu' je peghmey !
moreover secrets are cool too !

jInenDI' jIchoHbe' vaj Holmey lumutlhboghlu' lutulu' 'e' vIghojDI', jIQub :
when I grew up, I didn't change so when I learned that there are
constructed languages I thought :

mayqel Dochmey DaSo'meH, Dun mIwvam !
michael, this is a great way to hide things !

wejHa' De'ngop let DaSo'. DaH HollIj DaSo' !
you're already encrypting your hard discs. now encrypt your language !

qaStaHvIS bI'reS, *mordor* Hol qIj vIHaD.
at the beginning I studied the black tongue of mordor.

Holmey lumutlhboghlu' mu'ang QIbmey joHmo',vIHaD 'ej vIparHa'qu'mo'.
because from the lord of the rings I found out the existence of
constructed languages, I studied it (the black tongue) and because I
liked it a lot.

'ach *mordor* Hol qIj vuSlu'mo' vIlonpu'.
however because the black tongue of mordor was limited, I abandoned it.

toH jinejqa'..
so I started searching again..

romulusngan Hol vulqangan Hol je vItu' 'ach vIpar.
I found romulan and vulcan however I disliked them.

'ej pay' *omniglot*Daq tlhIngan Hol vItu' ! pay',Do' !
and suddenly at omniglot I discovered Klingon ! Suddenly and by luck !

qatlh tlhingan Hol vIghoj vIneH 'e' vIwuq ?
why did I decide to learn Klingon ?

meq HujvaD..
for a strange reason..

vemDaj vImuSHa' !
I fell in love with its looks !

tlhoSHa' !
really !

qaStaHvIS mIllogh wa'DIch, bang 'oH !
it was love at first sight !

boQwI' vIlI' 'ej boQwI'Daq tlhIngan Hol yejHaD tetlhvam je vItu'..
I downloaded boQwI' and there I learned of KLI and this list..

boghpu' qunnoq !
so qunnoq was born !

the rest is history, and I'm honored now to be part of the Klingon family.

Qapla' !

cpt qunnoq


On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:35 PM,  <qov at kli.org> wrote:
>> ok, lets take things slowly..
>>
>> first the last sentences :
>>
>> bInep = you are lying
>> bIpegh neH = you're only keeping something secret
>
> maj.
>
>> Daq pegh luDabbogh nIrurbogh tlhIngan Hol ghojqangwI'pu' yI'ang!
>> you reveal the ones who are willing to learn Klingon who resemble you, who
>> (they) reside at a secret location (!?!?)
>
> There are two nested {-bogh} clauses so you need to do a bit of unravelling.
> Notice that the main verb 'ang has the prefix yI-. this means that the
> sentence is a command, not a statement, and that the object of the verb is
> singular. (Were it plural I would say tI'ang). There are actually only two
> possible objects in the sentence: {Daq} and {tlhIngan Hol ghojqangwI'pu'}.
> the latter cannot be singular, so the object must be Daq.
>
> The command is "Reveal the secret place where the ones like you who are
> willing to learn Klingon reside!" Probably not a sentence I would say
> spontaneously in speech, but I wrote it forward in one pass.
>
>> ghojmeH taj Hev loDHom.
>> in order to learn the boy received the knife
>
> Your translation is correct. I didn't write the sentence in a way that would
> check what I wanted to check. There is one use of {-meH} that isn't
> completely covered in TKD.  As well as marking an entire clause that
> precedes the main clause and states the purpose of the main clause, a verb
> with {-meH} can mark just a noun, and give the purpose of that noun.
>
> jejbe' ghojmeH taj. = A training knife is not sharp.
> lom burghDaq HoHmeH vIychorgh tu' Qel. = The doctor found a killing juice in
> the corpse's stomach.
>
>> pIpol.
>> we keep/save you.
>
> We will indeed keep you.
>
>> chay' tlhIngan Hol Datu'?
>> how do you discover/find/observe/notice Klingon?
>
> I'm quite curious about this. chay' Hol Datu' 'ej chay' jutu'?
>
>> qatlh DaghojchoH?
>> why do you learn it ?
>
> Why did you take it up, start learning it.  I know you keep learning it
> because you now know it's awesome.
>
>> lI'qa'laHchugh
>> if it is able to be useful again
>
> yes, and the next part is the subject of that sentence
>
>> pISuqmeH
>> in order to get you
> in order for us to get you
>
>> mIw
>> the procedure
>
> Togther pISuqmeH mIw = <the "in order for us to get you" procedure> = "the
> way we acquired you"
>
>>, vaj
>> wa' SaDlogh wIlo' vIneH.
>> then I
>> want that we use it a thousand times.
>
> "If the way we acquired you can be useful again, then I want that we use it
> a thousand times."
>
>> actually this last sentence is the one I meant, when I wrote that I didn't
>> understand anything..
>>
>> maybe its because of this jay' sleepiness. I really need to get to bed
> now.
>
> It was a hard sentence. I don't write beginner sentences to talk to you
> anymore. I just write. I know that you will either understand them, or learn
> how. qa'lIj vIvoq.
>
> DaqlIj peghDaq nItlhej nIrurbogh nuv 'e' vIHon, 'a 'elaDya'Daq chen qo' naQ
> SIghtaHbogh tayqeq Dun, vaj chemerlaHbej.
>
> - Qov
>
>> cpt qunnoq
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:42 PM,  <qov at kli.org> wrote:
>> >> > pIpol.
>> >> > chay' tlhIngan Hol Datu'? qatlh DaghojchoH? lI'qa'laHchugh pISuqmeH
>> >> > mIw, vaj wa' SaDlogh wIlo' vIneH.
>> >>
>> >> I didn't understand anything.
>> >
>> > bInep.  bIpegh neH.  Daq pegh luDabbogh nIrurbogh tlhIngan Hol
>> > ghojqangwI'pu' yI'ang!  Hov ghajbe'bogh ram rur pegh ghajbe'bogh jaj.
>> >
>> > But if you're serious, let's figure out what you need to learn in
>> > order to understand it. Do you have any problem with any of these
>> sentences?
>> >
>> > chay' raS DachenmoH?
>> > qatlh wISop?
>> > tlhuHchugh vay' yIn.
>> > ghojmeH taj Hev loDHom.
>> > Hutlogh qama' bIj 'avwI'.
>> > vIHoH vIneH.
>> >
>> > - Qov
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> qunnoq
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:07 PM,  <qov at kli.org> wrote:
>> >> > pIpol.
>> >> >
>> >> > chay' tlhIngan Hol Datu'? qatlh DaghojchoH? lI'qa'laHchugh pISuqmeH
>> >> > mIw, vaj wa' SaDlogh wIlo' vIneH.
>> >> >
>> >> > - Qov
>> >> >
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: mayql qunenoS [mailto:mihkoun at gmail.com]
>> >> >> Sent: January 21, 2016 3:02
>> >> >> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
>> >> >> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] Why Klingon is perfect
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In this mail I will describe, why Klingon is perfect as a conlang.
>> >> >> Not
>> >> > "why it is
>> >> >> perfect according to my opinion" but rather "why it is perfect.
>> > period."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Because of the following reasons:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1. Because it can't be translated by a non Klingonist. I don't
>> >> >> think that
>> >> > a non-
>> >> >> Klingonist could just fire up whatever app, and just read anything
>> >> >> that
>> >> > might
>> >> >> be written in Klingon. Unless someone puts in the effort of
>> >> >> actually
>> >> > learning
>> >> >> Klingon, he cannot translate a Klingon text. End of story.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2. Because a non-Kilngonist cannot even read it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 3. Because it has a vocabulary of only 2700 words approximately
>> >> >> (give or
>> >> > take,
>> >> >> depending on what someone would consider a word) ; This means that
>> >> >> someone who wishes to learn, has actually a shot at managing to
>> >> >> learn the entire vocabulary. If it had a vocabulary of 10.000
>> >> >> words, who would be
>> >> > able
>> >> >> to learn them all ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 4. Because the vocabulary of Klingon is actually a vocabulary that
>> >> > consists of
>> >> >> words one can use in everyday discussion ; If we exclude words as
>> >> >> {DarSeq} or <to use the (whatever) toe> almost every word of the
>> >> >> vocabulary can be used in everyday discussions. This is definitely
>> >> >> not the case with
>> >> > conlangs
>> >> >> such as Vulcan, which have an enormous database of words (in
>> >> >> Vulcan's case scientific), still of no use to everyday needs.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 5. Because with only 2700 words, one can say almost anything he
>> >> >> needs in every speech.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 6. Because one has the actual choice, of choosing whether to write
>> >> >> in
>> >> > pIqaD
>> >> >> or english characters.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 7. Because pIqaD can actually be writen by hand, in contrast to
>> >> >> other conlangs' characters which are extremely difficult - even
>> >> >> impossible
>> >> >> - to
>> >> > write
>> >> >> by hand.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 8. Because with relatively few pages of grammar, one can express
>> >> >> almost anything he desires.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 9. Because it doesn't burder the mind of the student Klingonist
>> >> >> with
>> >> > having to
>> >> >> remember details that aren't needed, in order to express himself.
>> >> >> For example, why would I need to concern myself with tenses, when
>> >> >> I can just use a time stamp and express exactly the same meaning ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 10. Because it has a single authority (Okrand) who decides what is
>> >> >> right
>> >> > and
>> >> >> what is wrong. In this way the entire community can have set
>> >> >> rules, thus being able to communicate with one another through the
>> >> >> use of Klingon, which is the ultimate goal of every language.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 11. Because with the use of prefixes and suffixes we can express a
>> >> >> lot, without having to actually write a lot. Even the ancient
>> >> >> Spartans (the
>> >> > closest
>> >> >> equivalent to Klingons) hated the use of many and unnecessary words.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 12. Because it can be spoken in an either aggressive or mild
>> >> >> (Azetbur's
>> >> >> speech) way.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ..I know that any other conlang-ist would have a lot to say in
>> >> >> order to
>> >> > defend
>> >> >> his own, chosen conlang. So, the final reason why Klingon is
>> >> >> perfect, is
>> >> > rather
>> >> >> simple :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 13. jIjatlhmo' pup tlhIngan Hol !
>> >> >>
>> >> >> cpt qunnoq
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>
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>> >
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