[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: {-'e'} and {-bogh}

[mayql qunenoS]

I only had time to work on the translation of the klingon sentences,
so here it is :

{HejwI' vem'e' tu'bogh Hoqra' qon yaS.}
<The officer recorded the rober's tracks which were found by the tricorder.>
I don't think that we put place the {-'e'} anywhere else here. If it
was placed on the {Hoqra'} the meaning would be <The officer recorded
the tricorder, which found the rober's tracks>. I don't think this
makes sense in english.

{'IH Hoqra' 'uchbogh yaS'e'.}
<The officer who holds the tricorder is beautiful.>
Same here. I don't think we put place {-'e'} on {Hoqra'}. Then we
would have <The tricorder which is held by the officer is beautiful>.
Maybe, a tech freak could characterize a tricorder as being
"beautiful" but still..

{QI' yaS ghaH yaS'e' Ho'bogh loDnI'lI'.}
<The officer who is admired by your brother is a military officer.>
Maybe here we could place the {-'e'} on {loDnI'lI'} ; then we would
get <Your brother who admires the officer, is a military officer>.

{QI yaS ghaH'a' QI 'avbogh nuv'e'?}
<is the person who guards the bridge, a bridge officer?>
I don't think we could put here the {-'e'} on the second {QI}, because
then we would be asking if the bridge is a bridge officer.

Doq meyrI''e' yughbogh loS reD 'Impey pIrmuS 'a SuD ra'Duchmey Dabogh
Dopmey.
<The square is red which consists the four sided pyramid bottom,
however the sides which act in the manner of the triangles are SuD
(green,blue,yellow).> I guess we could place the {-'e'} on pIrmuS, if
we wanted to indicate that the bottom is red. On the second sentence
(after the {'a}) I don't think that the {-'e'} could be placed
anywhere, because the sides are the triangles as well, so there isn't
anything to distinguish or clarify to the listener.

moH yang ghIHmo' toqwIn'e' laSta'bogh 'aj.
The only way I can think of this making any sense, is if the {-'e'}
was removed from the {toqwIn} and placed on the {'aj}. Then we would
have the meaning <The image of the rubber stamp is ugly, because the
admiral who inked up the stamp was careless.>

{pIm 'uSqan'e' lo'bogh no'ma'.}
<The iron which was used by our ancestors is different.> I think we
could place here the {-'e'} on {no'ma'} thus having <Our ancestors who
used iron were different>.

Hopefully, tomorrow I will have the time to translate the english
sentences too..

cpt qunnoq

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 12:30 PM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You have no more created passive voice in Klingon than you have created
>> type-5 suffixes in English. When you translate, you use the tools the
>> language has. If I can use a ladder to get things off high shelves in my
>> house and you stand on a dog in your house, the fact that I could reach the
>> marmalade  for breakfast this morning does not imply the spontaneous
>> appearance of a dog in my kitchen. Different tools, same job, even if I
>> sometimes refer to your dog as a ladder, and you sometimes refer to my
>> ladder as a dog. (Also some people will complain that it's stupid that you
>> stand on a dog, and your house can't be taken seriously as a real house
>> until whoever built it gets you a ladder).
>
> This is a beautiful explanation ! Believe it or not, I had suspected
> that something like this must be going on, but I asked anyway in order
> to make certain. This whole thing reminds me of something SuStel had
> told me, not so long ago, when I had difficulty understanding why the
> indefinite subject isn't actually passive voice, however we often
> choose to translate it as passive voice. If memory serves my right, he
> had said that I was confusing the literal translation with the actual
> meaning (or something like that).
>
> Anyway, I think I understand now, so I will start working on your last
> group of sentences and post them here soon.
>
> cpt qunnoq
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Anthony Appleyard
> <a.appleyard at btinternet.com> wrote:
>> This comma in English written relative senteces likely corresponds to a
>> slight hesitation in speech.
>>
>> ----Original message----
>> From : lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com
>>
>>>  ...
>>> In English, we differentiate parenthetical from identifying clauses by
>>> using a comma with parenthetical clauses, but omitting the comma for a
>>> clause that identifies the specific item. Klingon apparently does not
>>> differentiate between these two types of relative clauses.
>>
>>
>>
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