[Tlhingan-hol] Ha'DIbaH wIchmey

Tue Jan 5 00:21:23 PST 2016

thanks for replying.

I would like though, before moving on, to clarify further the whole
SAO and verb suffixes subject ;

lets assume the following SAO sentence :

... verb 1 ... verb 2 ... 'e' verb 3

as I understand, the following suffixes are allowed :

verb 1 : all suffixes
verb 2 : all suffixes
verb 3 : all suffixes except type 7

right ?

cpt qunnoq

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 4:21 PM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 1/4/2016 5:10 AM, mayql qunenoS wrote:
>>
>> jIH : Ha'DIbaHmey SaHbogh wIchmey law' tu'lu'pu' 'e' vItlhoj.
>> SoH : you can't put a type 7 suffix on the second verb of a
>> sentence-as-object.
>>
>> this confuses me ; in the above sentence we have three verbs : {SaH}
>> {tu'lu'} and {tlhoj}. How does their numbering take place ? I thought
>> that we begin from the end (the right) and we proceed to the beginning
>> (the left). So here we would have :
>>
>> {thloj} = 1
>> {tu'lu'} = 2
>> {SaH} = 3
>>
>> So, my first question is "is this numbering correct" ?
>
>
> No. Klingons don't read their language from right to left; that's just how a
> beginning student of Klingon might deconstruct the sentence for
> understanding.
>
> The two sentences involved here are:
>
> 1: Ha'DIbaHmey SaHbogh wIchmey law' tu'lu'pu'
> 2: 'e' vItlhoj
>
> In this construction, you can't put a type 7 suffix on {tlhoj} because it is
> the main verb in the second sentence of the SAO.
>
> That {SaH} is a verb in a relative clause is irrelevant to this discussion;
> it is not the main verb in an independent sentence.
>
>> Moving on, I thought (and apparently I was mistaken) that only the
>> first verb in a SAO, can't have a suffix. In this case the verb
>> {tlhoj}. I believed that on the verbs that were to preceed {'e'}
>> someone can put any suffix he wants.
>>
>> So, my second question is "on which verbs that precede {'e'} in a SAO,
>> can someone attach suffixes" ?
>>
>> And then comes another question..
>>
>> I noticed, you wrote : "you can't put a type 7 suffix on the second
>> verb of a sentence-as-object."
>>
>> So, comes the third question "on the second verb of a SAO, the only
>> suffixes that are prohibited, are type 7, or any other kind of
>> suffixes too" ?
>
>
> Only type 7 suffixes are prohibited, and only from the second main verb, the
> verb that takes {'e'} as its object.
>
>> So, I guess if I want to say "german car", I must say {DoyIchlan puH
>> Duj} and not {DoyIchlangan puH Duj}. However this just hit me :
>> Doesn't a dog inhabit a place, in our case a country ? But I guess, I
>> was wrong, not because the dog doesn't inhabit greece, but because it
>> is a greek dog. If it went abroad, it would still be a greek shepherd
>> dog.
>
>
> A Greek shepherd dog that lives in Germany would be an {'elaDya' 'avwI' dog}
> and a {DoyIchlangan}.
>
>> On the other hand, if we push this to the limit, can't a german man
>> inhabit greece permanently ? If {-ngan} means inhabitant, then why
>> shouldn't I call him {'elaDya'ngan} too ?
>
>
> You should. {'elaDya'ngan} means he is an inhabitant of Greece, not that his
> heritage is Greek. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Greeks called him a
> {DoyIchlangan} no matter how long he'd lived in Greece.
>
>> jIH : *pasta* 'oHbej Soj qaq'Daj'e'.
>> SoH : Don't forget that only type 5 noun suffixes migrate to the end
>> of an adjectival verb. What you've said here means "pasta is its
>> preferable food." I'm not sure what that means. Try rewording this
>> using {maS} "prefer" instead.
>>
>> I'm happy to learn (finally) which suffixes migrate to the end of an
>> adjectival verb. Some time ago, I thought of asking in KLBC, however
>> something else drew my attention and I forgot.
>> maybe I should say : {*pasta* maSbej} <it undoubtebly prefered pasta>
>
>
> maj.
>
>> jIH : ghIq tawvo' wItlhappu'bogh Ha'DIbaH wIghaj.
>>         then we had a dog which we took from the street.
>> SoH : Your word order inside the relative clause is incorrect. What
>> are the subject and object of the relative verb?
>>
>> careless me.. I should say (I think) : ghIq tawvo' Ha'DIbaH
>> wItlhappu'bogh wIghaj
>
>
> maj.
>
>> jIH : tIr ngogh parHa' law' Hoch Soj parHa' puS..
>>         it liked bread most than any other food.
>> SoH : A comparative sentence requires a verb expressing a quality, but
>> {parHa'} "like" isn't a quality. Try recasting.
>>
>> Again, good to know that a quality is required for ... X law' ... X
>> puS construction. I thought that I could place any verb, ..and problem
>> solved ! However, I can't find a way to properly express my intended
>> meaning. maybe :
>>
>> tIr ngogh parHa'qu'bej. SojDaj QaQqu' 'oH tIr ngogh'e'.
>> it certainly liked bread. bread was its best food.
>
>
> "Its very good food" doesn't really do the job either. This can be a tricky
> kind of thing to say. Here's one possibility:
>
>    Soj'e' Sopbogh, tIr ngogh qaq law' Hoch qaq puS
>    of the food which it eats, bread is preferable
>
> This sentence uses a topic noun phrase ({Soj'e' Sopbogh} "of the food which
> it eats") to explain what the comparative construction is referring to.
>
> Here's another possibility:
>
>    tIr ngogh 'ey law' Hoch 'ey puS 'e' Qub
>    it thinks that bread is the most delicious
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol at kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol