[Tlhingan-hol] Ha'DIbaH wIchmey

[SuStel]

On 1/4/2016 5:10 AM, mayql qunenoS wrote:
> jIH : Ha'DIbaHmey SaHbogh wIchmey law' tu'lu'pu' 'e' vItlhoj.
> SoH : you can't put a type 7 suffix on the second verb of a sentence-as-object.
>
> this confuses me ; in the above sentence we have three verbs : {SaH}
> {tu'lu'} and {tlhoj}. How does their numbering take place ? I thought
> that we begin from the end (the right) and we proceed to the beginning
> (the left). So here we would have :
>
> {thloj} = 1
> {tu'lu'} = 2
> {SaH} = 3
>
> So, my first question is "is this numbering correct" ?

No. Klingons don't read their language from right to left; that's just 
how a beginning student of Klingon might deconstruct the sentence for 
understanding.

The two sentences involved here are:

1: Ha'DIbaHmey SaHbogh wIchmey law' tu'lu'pu'
2: 'e' vItlhoj

In this construction, you can't put a type 7 suffix on {tlhoj} because 
it is the main verb in the second sentence of the SAO.

That {SaH} is a verb in a relative clause is irrelevant to this 
discussion; it is not the main verb in an independent sentence.

> Moving on, I thought (and apparently I was mistaken) that only the
> first verb in a SAO, can't have a suffix. In this case the verb
> {tlhoj}. I believed that on the verbs that were to preceed {'e'}
> someone can put any suffix he wants.
>
> So, my second question is "on which verbs that precede {'e'} in a SAO,
> can someone attach suffixes" ?
>
> And then comes another question..
>
> I noticed, you wrote : "you can't put a type 7 suffix on the second
> verb of a sentence-as-object."
>
> So, comes the third question "on the second verb of a SAO, the only
> suffixes that are prohibited, are type 7, or any other kind of
> suffixes too" ?

Only type 7 suffixes are prohibited, and only from the second main verb, 
the verb that takes {'e'} as its object.

> So, I guess if I want to say "german car", I must say {DoyIchlan puH
> Duj} and not {DoyIchlangan puH Duj}. However this just hit me :
> Doesn't a dog inhabit a place, in our case a country ? But I guess, I
> was wrong, not because the dog doesn't inhabit greece, but because it
> is a greek dog. If it went abroad, it would still be a greek shepherd
> dog.

A Greek shepherd dog that lives in Germany would be an {'elaDya' 'avwI' 
dog} and a {DoyIchlangan}.

> On the other hand, if we push this to the limit, can't a german man
> inhabit greece permanently ? If {-ngan} means inhabitant, then why
> shouldn't I call him {'elaDya'ngan} too ?

You should. {'elaDya'ngan} means he is an inhabitant of Greece, not that 
his heritage is Greek. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Greeks called 
him a {DoyIchlangan} no matter how long he'd lived in Greece.

> jIH : *pasta* 'oHbej Soj qaq'Daj'e'.
> SoH : Don't forget that only type 5 noun suffixes migrate to the end
> of an adjectival verb. What you've said here means "pasta is its
> preferable food." I'm not sure what that means. Try rewording this
> using {maS} "prefer" instead.
>
> I'm happy to learn (finally) which suffixes migrate to the end of an
> adjectival verb. Some time ago, I thought of asking in KLBC, however
> something else drew my attention and I forgot.
> maybe I should say : {*pasta* maSbej} <it undoubtebly prefered pasta>

maj.

> jIH : ghIq tawvo' wItlhappu'bogh Ha'DIbaH wIghaj.
>         then we had a dog which we took from the street.
> SoH : Your word order inside the relative clause is incorrect. What
> are the subject and object of the relative verb?
>
> careless me.. I should say (I think) : ghIq tawvo' Ha'DIbaH
> wItlhappu'bogh wIghaj

maj.

> jIH : tIr ngogh parHa' law' Hoch Soj parHa' puS..
>         it liked bread most than any other food.
> SoH : A comparative sentence requires a verb expressing a quality, but
> {parHa'} "like" isn't a quality. Try recasting.
>
> Again, good to know that a quality is required for ... X law' ... X
> puS construction. I thought that I could place any verb, ..and problem
> solved ! However, I can't find a way to properly express my intended
> meaning. maybe :
>
> tIr ngogh parHa'qu'bej. SojDaj QaQqu' 'oH tIr ngogh'e'.
> it certainly liked bread. bread was its best food.

"Its very good food" doesn't really do the job either. This can be a 
tricky kind of thing to say. Here's one possibility:

    Soj'e' Sopbogh, tIr ngogh qaq law' Hoch qaq puS
    of the food which it eats, bread is preferable

This sentence uses a topic noun phrase ({Soj'e' Sopbogh} "of the food 
which it eats") to explain what the comparative construction is 
referring to.

Here's another possibility:

    tIr ngogh 'ey law' Hoch 'ey puS 'e' Qub
    it thinks that bread is the most delicious

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name