[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Beginner's One-Sentence Story Game

Wed Feb 24 15:14:29 PST 2016

Hi folks, please move this discussion over to the thread that QISta'
started on the topic. I don't want us to clog up the game space.

--

Socialist Alternative <http://www.socialistalternative.org/>
Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:20 PM, lojmIttI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I feel like you sort of got the nature of the correction, but maybe not
> really.
>
> It’s less important that you replace {pagh} with {-be’chugh vaj…} than it
> is that you don’t try to link an imperative command with a simple statement
> by using a conjunction.
>
> Consider the classic Klingon “Surrender or die!” We are told that you’d
> translate that {bIjeghbe'chugh vaj bIHegh}. Literally “If you don’t
> surrender, you will die.” You probably could say {bIjegh pagh bIHegh}.
> Literally, that means “Either you surrender, or you die. Not both. Not
> neither. One of the two statements is true.”
>
> Logically, there is a slight difference. Both versions are truthful if:
> You surrender and don’t die.
> You don’t surrender and do die.
>
> Both statements are false if you don’t surrender and you don’t die.
>
> The {-be’chugh vaj} version is true if you do surrender and you still die,
> while the {pagh} version is false in that condition.
>
> Using this same statement written as you keep trying to write your
> commands would be *{yIjegh pagh bIHegh}* You can translate that in a way
> that SOUNDS okay in English, “Surrender or you die.” Meanwhile, if you dig
> into what it really means, what you are saying is:
>
> “Either I command you to surrender, or you die. Not both. Not neither.” In
> other words, one thing is true: “I command you to surrender” or the other
> thing is true “You die.” Since I’m obviously commanding you to surrender,
> that part is already true regardless of whether you actually surrender or
> not, so logically, the second part can’t be true, so you can’t die, unless
> I’m lying.
>
> See? That’s a VERY different statement than you are trying to make.
>
> So, you really have three options here:
>
> yIjegh! (Context of weapons pointed at you would probably fill you in on
> the cost of not complying.)
>
> bIjeghbe’chugh vaj bIHegh!
>
> bIjegh pagh bIHegh!
>
> pItlh
> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>
>
>
> On Feb 24, 2016, at 1:17 PM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> QISta':
>
> bergh HoD 'ej jach: «yItamchoH! 'ach romuluSnganDaq
>
> SoH qangeH!» Oops! I meant to say {pagh}, for "or I'll send
> you to the Romulans". Not sure if that's correct either... :-(
>
>
> Recently, Qov had pointed out to me (thank you Qov !) that the klingon
> word {pagh} (conj) <or, either/or>, cannot be used in klingon, in the
> same way that we would say in english <surrender or die>.
>
> The formula in klingon is {...-chugh vaj ...} <if you do/don't
> (whatever) then (consequences)>. So, in your example the correct way
> to put it would be :
>
> <if you don't become quite then I will send you to the romulans>.
> {yItamchoHbe'chugh vaj romuluSnganpu'Daq qangeH !}.
>
> Notice 2 things :
>
> 1. By using the <if you don't, then I will> formula, the sentence
> acquires a more "active" feeling that just saying <become quite or I
> will send you to the romulans>. and this good, because klingon is a
> verb-centric and therefore an "active" language.
> 2. I chose to omit the {SoH}, since it is already expressed by the use
> of the prefix {qa-}.
>
> But before you do adopt any of these comments, please check with
> someone else too, because I'm also a beginner and in case I'm
> mistaken, I wouldn't want to confuse you..
>
> Anyway the last sentence in the game is :
>
> jIHDaq HIghoS ; cha' 'avwI'pu'vaD jatlh HoD.. be'vam yIbagh 'ej
> romulSngan may'DujDaq yIQol.
>
> mIv Hurgh qunnoq
> i worked up a headache trying to write the Sylvester mail.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:47 PM, chransberry at gmail.com
> <chransberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> bergh HoD 'ej jach: «yItamchoH! 'ach romuluSnganDaq SoH qangeH!»
>
>
> Oops! I meant to say {pagh}, for "or I'll send you to the Romulans". Not
> sure if that's correct either... :-(
>
> I think that it would be better if the sentence was written {berghchoH HoD}
>
>
> Hmm... probably; I mean, the captain was already angry, so probably also
> irritable, but as the woman's response triggered further irritation,
> {-choH}
> might be better...
>
> Sorry I don't have a new sentence just at present.
>
> -QISta'
>
>
> -----Original message-----
>
> From: mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>
> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol at kli.org>
> Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2016 10:18:11 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Beginner's One-Sentence Story Game
>
> jIH:
>
> ghIq Qub HoD 'ej beqvam jatlh : lugh be'vam ! romuluSnganDaq yIH
> bongeH 'a yIHDaq wa' 'otlh peng borar !
>
> 'arHa':
>
> (I think you mean {tI-} for ngeH and rar, qar'a'? And {beqvamvaD} or
> {beqvaD}?)
>
>
> Yes 'arHa' you're correct on both accounts. I forgot to place the
> {-vaD}, and I forgot as well to use the imperative suffixes. Thank you
> for bringing these mistakes to my attention !
>
> ..now lets continue with our story :
>
> bergh HoD 'ej jach: «yItamchoH! 'ach romuluSnganDaq SoH qangeH!»
> the captain was irritated and said : you get quite ! however I will
> send you to the romulan.
>
> If you would allow me QISta' to make a suggestion : In english we may
> say meaning that became irritated> ; in klingon however we express the
> quality
> through the use of the {-choH}. So I think that it would be better if
> the sentence was written {berghchoH HoD}.
>
> anyway..
>
> jIHDaq HIghoS ; cha' 'avwI'pu'vaD jatlh HoD.. be'vam yIbagh 'ej
> romulSngan may'DujDaq yIQol.
>
> mIv Hurgh qunnoq
> it took me an hour to write the sylvester mail
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:25 PM, chransberry at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> qagh be' cha'DIch: "'ach, vIHaDmeH yIHmey vIpolnIS!"
> The second woman interrupted, "But, I keep tribbles to study them!"
>
> bergh HoD 'ej jach: «yItamchoH! 'ach romuluSnganDaq SoH qangeH!»
>
> -QISta'
>
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
>
> -----Original message-----
>
> From: "John R. Harness"
> To: "tlhingan-hol at kli.org"
> Sent: Tue, Feb 23, 2016 18:42:54 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Beginner's One-Sentence Story Game
>
>
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