[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Beginner's One-Sentence Story Game

Wed Feb 24 14:20:49 PST 2016

I feel like you sort of got the nature of the correction, but maybe not really.

It’s less important that you replace {pagh} with {-be’chugh vaj…} than it is that you don’t try to link an imperative command with a simple statement by using a conjunction.

Consider the classic Klingon “Surrender or die!” We are told that you’d translate that {bIjeghbe'chugh vaj bIHegh}. Literally “If you don’t surrender, you will die.” You probably could say {bIjegh pagh bIHegh}. Literally, that means “Either you surrender, or you die. Not both. Not neither. One of the two statements is true.”

Logically, there is a slight difference. Both versions are truthful if:
You surrender and don’t die.
You don’t surrender and do die.

Both statements are false if you don’t surrender and you don’t die.

The {-be’chugh vaj} version is true if you do surrender and you still die, while the {pagh} version is false in that condition.

Using this same statement written as you keep trying to write your commands would be *{yIjegh pagh bIHegh}* You can translate that in a way that SOUNDS okay in English, “Surrender or you die.” Meanwhile, if you dig into what it really means, what you are saying is:

“Either I command you to surrender, or you die. Not both. Not neither.” In other words, one thing is true: “I command you to surrender” or the other thing is true “You die.” Since I’m obviously commanding you to surrender, that part is already true regardless of whether you actually surrender or not, so logically, the second part can’t be true, so you can’t die, unless I’m lying.

See? That’s a VERY different statement than you are trying to make.

So, you really have three options here:

yIjegh! (Context of weapons pointed at you would probably fill you in on the cost of not complying.)

bIjeghbe’chugh vaj bIHegh!

bIjegh pagh bIHegh!

pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv

> On Feb 24, 2016, at 1:17 PM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> QISta':
>>> bergh HoD 'ej jach: «yItamchoH! 'ach romuluSnganDaq
>> SoH qangeH!» Oops! I meant to say {pagh}, for "or I'll send
>> you to the Romulans". Not sure if that's correct either... :-(
> 
> Recently, Qov had pointed out to me (thank you Qov !) that the klingon
> word {pagh} (conj) <or, either/or>, cannot be used in klingon, in the
> same way that we would say in english <surrender or die>.
> 
> The formula in klingon is {...-chugh vaj ...} <if you do/don't
> (whatever) then (consequences)>. So, in your example the correct way
> to put it would be :
> 
> <if you don't become quite then I will send you to the romulans>.
> {yItamchoHbe'chugh vaj romuluSnganpu'Daq qangeH !}.
> 
> Notice 2 things :
> 
> 1. By using the <if you don't, then I will> formula, the sentence
> acquires a more "active" feeling that just saying <become quite or I
> will send you to the romulans>. and this good, because klingon is a
> verb-centric and therefore an "active" language.
> 2. I chose to omit the {SoH}, since it is already expressed by the use
> of the prefix {qa-}.
> 
> But before you do adopt any of these comments, please check with
> someone else too, because I'm also a beginner and in case I'm
> mistaken, I wouldn't want to confuse you..
> 
> Anyway the last sentence in the game is :
> 
> jIHDaq HIghoS ; cha' 'avwI'pu'vaD jatlh HoD.. be'vam yIbagh 'ej
> romulSngan may'DujDaq yIQol.
> 
> mIv Hurgh qunnoq
> i worked up a headache trying to write the Sylvester mail.
> 
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:47 PM, chransberry at gmail.com
> <chransberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> bergh HoD 'ej jach: «yItamchoH! 'ach romuluSnganDaq SoH qangeH!»
>> 
>> Oops! I meant to say {pagh}, for "or I'll send you to the Romulans". Not
>> sure if that's correct either... :-(
>> 
>>> I think that it would be better if the sentence was written {berghchoH HoD}
>> 
>> Hmm... probably; I mean, the captain was already angry, so probably also
>> irritable, but as the woman's response triggered further irritation, {-choH}
>> might be better...
>> 
>> Sorry I don't have a new sentence just at present.
>> 
>> -QISta'
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original message-----
>> 
>> From: mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>
>> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol at kli.org>
>> Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2016 10:18:11 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Beginner's One-Sentence Story Game
>> 
>> jIH:
>>> ghIq Qub HoD 'ej beqvam jatlh : lugh be'vam ! romuluSnganDaq yIH
>>> bongeH 'a yIHDaq wa' 'otlh peng borar !
>> 'arHa':
>>> (I think you mean {tI-} for ngeH and rar, qar'a'? And {beqvamvaD} or
>>> {beqvaD}?)
>> 
>> Yes 'arHa' you're correct on both accounts. I forgot to place the
>> {-vaD}, and I forgot as well to use the imperative suffixes. Thank you
>> for bringing these mistakes to my attention !
>> 
>> ..now lets continue with our story :
>> 
>> bergh HoD 'ej jach: «yItamchoH! 'ach romuluSnganDaq SoH qangeH!»
>> the captain was irritated and said : you get quite ! however I will
>> send you to the romulan.
>> 
>> If you would allow me QISta' to make a suggestion : In english we may
>> say meaning that became irritated> ; in klingon however we express the
>> quality
>> through the use of the {-choH}. So I think that it would be better if
>> the sentence was written {berghchoH HoD}.
>> 
>> anyway..
>> 
>> jIHDaq HIghoS ; cha' 'avwI'pu'vaD jatlh HoD.. be'vam yIbagh 'ej
>> romulSngan may'DujDaq yIQol.
>> 
>> mIv Hurgh qunnoq
>> it took me an hour to write the sylvester mail
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:25 PM, chransberry at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>> qagh be' cha'DIch: "'ach, vIHaDmeH yIHmey vIpolnIS!"
>>> The second woman interrupted, "But, I keep tribbles to study them!"
>>> 
>>> bergh HoD 'ej jach: «yItamchoH! 'ach romuluSnganDaq SoH qangeH!»
>>> 
>>> -QISta'
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original message-----
>>> 
>>> From: "John R. Harness"
>>> To: "tlhingan-hol at kli.org"
>>> Sent: Tue, Feb 23, 2016 18:42:54 GMT+00:00
>>> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Beginner's One-Sentence Story Game
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
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