[Tlhingan-hol] Type 5 on first noun

[SuStel]

On 2/5/2016 11:13 AM, kechpaja at comcast.net wrote:
 > Is that really a noun-noun construction at all, though? From a
 > syntactic point of view, I'd say that a noun with a type 5 suffix
 > falls into a different syntactic category than a noun without one (in
 > English it would be a prepositional phrase rather than a noun phrase;
 > I'm not sure what to call it in Klingon).
 >
 > To look at it another way: perhaps that rule doesn't imply that a
 > noun with a type 5 suffix can't be *in* a noun-noun construction, so
 > much as that a construction whose first element is a noun with a type
 > 5 suffix would by definition be a different sort of construction.

On 2/5/2016 11:15 AM, qurgh lungqIj wrote:
> Is that just a location and a separate noun and not a noun-noun
> construction?
>
> The feast doesn't belong to Qam-Chee, it's happening at Qam-Chee. It's
> like he dropped a verb from the sentence:
>
> qamchIyDaq (qaS) 'uQ'a' - the feast {happened) at Qam-Chee

It's definitely a noun-noun. The N-N is a genitive construction, in 
which the first noun modifies the second to give it a narrower meaning 
than it would have alone. It doesn't only signify possession. For 
instance, {baS 'In} "metal drum" doesn't mean that metal owns the drum; 
it means a type of drum that is specified as being metal.

{qamchIyDaq 'uQ'a'} is Okrand's translation of "The Feast at Qam-Chee." 
It's a feast that is distinguished as one taking place at Qam-Chee. It's 
a noun-noun.

I don't accept that a word has been dropped, because Okrand tells us 
that "the form of language that was used for the paq'batlh is not 
conversational, but is a heightened form of language, one that conveys 
by its choice of vocabulary and turns of phrase the importance of the 
story being told." Anyway, the word-dropping excuse is trotted out every 
time the rule is broken. What's REALLY happening is that Okrand is 
forgetting or ignoring the rule, but there must be SOME explanation as 
to why the rule exists and yet it can be broken.

This isn't the first time we've seen standalone noun phrases that 
violate the rule. There's one on the Bird of Prey poster, for instance:

    telDaq wovmoHwI'mey
    Wing Lights

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name