[Tlhingan-hol] Hellraiser Bloodline

[lojmIttI'wI'nuv]

Basically, many Klingon speakers, especially Okrand, forget the prefix {lu-} in many settings, and he pushed out what is, for our very limited canon overall, a LOT of canon where he forgot to use {lutu’lu’}.

Wave your finger at him for not getting it right, and he waves his finger back, pointing out that his way is ALWAYS the right way. His repeated mistake becomes the way Klingons talk, and anybody who actually follows the rules he set are thereby pedantic.

pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv



> On Apr 18, 2016, at 12:10 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> voragh:
>> It means hyper-correct, i.e. the sort of picky little rule that grammar teachers
>> insist on even though out in the real world (i.e. outside the classroom) hardly
>> anybody speaks that way.
> 
> thank you voragh for explaining this ! now I understand.. and because
> I understand, I will use {tu'lu'} from now on.
> 
> cpt qunnoq
> 
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu> wrote:
>> De'vID:
>>>> {tu'lu'} is a set form. It's used even when referring to a plural
>>>> object.
>> 
>> mayqel qunenoS :
>>> yes, indeed ; I chose to use the {lutu'lu'} however, because I remember
>>> reading in the klingon wiki, that according to 'oqranD both are equally
>>> correct. or at least that's what I understood from the whole analysis.
>> 
>> lieven:
>>>> True, although {lutu'lu'} is not incorrect, it's just "a bit too
>>>> pedantic"
>> 
>> mayqel qunenoS:
>>> yes, I remember reading this exact word in the wiki, although I didn't
>>> understand what it meant. I looked it up, and I still don't understand it.
>>> anyway, if both {tu'lu'} and {lutu'lu'} are equally correct, then for
>>> unknown reasons I will continue using the latter. (unless someone manages
>>> to explain to me what "pedantic" actually means..)
>> 
>> It means hyper-correct, i.e. the sort of picky little rule that grammar teachers insist on even though out in the real world (i.e. outside the classroom) hardly anybody speaks that way.  Often these pedantic rules reflect old-fashioned or even obsolete practice;  that is they're not so much wrong but rather outdated, overly formal, or inappropriate - something you might write in a Ph.D. dissertation or a legal brief to the Supreme Court (when you're writing to impress), but certainly not when socializing with family or friends.  Surely there are such cases in modern Greek.
>> 
>> At qep'a' loSDIch "Robyn Stewart's idea of {lutu'lu'} as the Klingon version of 'whom' got a nod and an explicit lack of contradiction [from Okrand]. {naDev tlhInganpu' lutu'lu'} is grammatical, but the {lu-} is more often left off." (ghunchu'wI')
>> 
>> (charghwI'):  {lutu'lu'} does NOT translate as "whom" in any way at all. It is just that in English, most people use the word "who" when formally they should be using "whom", much like most Klingons use the word {tu'lu'} when they should be using {lutu'lu'}. In other words, the more formally correct sentence is {tlhInganpu' lutu'lu'} though most Klingons most of the time would say {tlhInganpu' tu'lu'}.
>> 
>> This idea of pedantic, overly correct speech is also discussed in _Klingon for the Galactic Traveler_ (pp. 168-172:  "THE CHANGING RULES: ACCEPTABLE DEVIATION ...  Common Errors: The Case of {lu-}") .
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Voragh
>> tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a'
>> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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