[Tlhingan-hol] beyn Dartlh

[qunnoQ HoD]

> Would {Sith ghaH Darth Bane'e'} be sufficient for the meaning?

This is a good question.. If I read the {Sith ghaH Darth Bane'e'}, I
would translate it in my mind as <<Darth Bane is (a) Sith>>. Is there
a way this could mean <<Among the Sith there was Darth Bane>> too ?
This may be a pretty a stupid question,but I'm asking because as a
beginner I have to assume that there may be alternate translations to
a given sentence,than just the one that I think is the obvious one..

> {tlhIngan ghaH wa' vub'e'.}

Same comment here. If I didn't see your translation,I would take this
as <<One hostage is Klingon>>. But what about the other hostages ? Are
they Klingon too ?
The objective isn't to say "One Sith (lord) is Darth Bane" ; It is to
say that "among the Sith (group) exists Darth Bane".  What if I wanted
to say <<among the Klingon Chancellors was Gowron>> ? With the
<<Klingon Chancellors>> having an abstract meaning,for example <<the
Klingon Chancellors (of all Klingon history)>> ?

> {wa' *Sith* ghaH *Darth Bane*'e'}

Now,this is much closer to the intented meaning ; Neverthless, I would
still have this problem.. My translation would be <<Darth Bane is/was
one Sith (lord)>>. The problem of defining him as a member of the
"abstract" group of the Sith is not addressed. On the other hand if we
were to accept the given translation <<Darth Bane is one of the Sith>>
then the problem is resolved. But why choose one translation over the
other ? We have to assume that the reader of something we write,isn't
in our mind knowing in advance what we mean to say. So,we must try to
"deliver" to him the one meaning,the one translation we wish him to
understand.

The way I see it,for a translation to be successful two criteria must be met :

1. two different readers after reading the same passage,understanding
the same translation (what in medicine (and possibly other sciences
too) would be defined as "interobserver reproducibility").
2. the same reader reading the same passage,at two different points of
time,understanding both times the same (intraobserver
reproducibility).

I'm afraid,that every alternate translation we have come up with so
far,would score pretty low on both 1&2..

qun HoD

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:52 PM, André Müller <esperantist at gmail.com> wrote:
> We have a canon sentence:
>
> {tlhIngan ghaH wa' vub'e'.}
> 'One of the hostages is a Klingon.'
>
> So if qonnoQ wants to make clear that Darth Bane is but one of the Sith
> lords, a possible translation might be:
>
> {wa' *Sith* ghaH *Darth Bane*'e'.}
> 'Darth Bane is one of the Siths.'
> 'Darth Bane is a (but one) Sith.'
>
> - André (wa' tlhIngan jatlhwI' jIH)
>
>
>
> 2015-11-30 15:22 GMT+01:00 SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name>:
>>
>> On 11/30/2015 8:35 AM, De'vID wrote:
>>>
>>> For your purposes, {-Daq} signifies a physical location.
>>> {tlhInganpu'Daq} means "at/on/in the Klingons". {tlhInganpu'Daq
>>> ghawran tu'lu'} would mean "Gowron is found among the Klingons", like
>>> if there were delegations at a conference from different planets or
>>> something. It wouldn't mean that Gowron was among the Klingons in an
>>> abstract sense like group membership, which is how it means to say
>>> "among the Sith, there was Darth Bane".
>>
>>
>> Would {Sith ghaH Darth Bane'e'} be sufficient for the meaning?
>>
>> --
>> SuStel
>> http://trimboli.name
>>
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