On Nov 7, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Lieven <levinius at gmx.de> wrote: >> I think it's uncontroversial that the above are allowed. > > I enjoy having neutral arguments, so I may say that I do not think these are uncontroversial. To me, they sound wrong. I too think they sound wrong. You need to reassess your belief that they are uncontroversial. -- ghunchu'wI'