[Tlhingan-hol] Piraha

[nIqolay Q]

According to KGT, the variant word order with {-jaj} is used only when
you're making a toast. I assume regular word order is fine with {-jaj} if
you're not hoisting up a glass of bloodwine in front of a wedding
celebration or whatever.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Oh, and you are totally right that {reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH} sort of
> means “May they keep fighting with honor.” The reason I’m a little
> squeamish on this is that the original follows NORMAL Klingon grammar and
> puts {-jaj} on the verb, but when we were introduced to {-jaj}, due to a
> likely blunder on Okrand’s part, sentences built on verbs with {-jaj} added
> have an exceptional word order, placing all the nouns before the verb, so
> technically {chaH} is misplaced.
>
> I think consensus is sort of kinda pushing for it being okay to use normal
> word order with {-jaj}, with a vague, wittering explanation about the
> difference between ancient, oft-repeated blessings vs. modern expressions
> of wishfulness, but I’m not sure we ever got The Word from The Man on this
> one. Also, though I know that the traditional blessing using {-jaj} puts
> the subject before the verb, I’m less sure where a direct object would go
> (before or after the subject).
>
> Also, note that I’m battling with a stupid spell-checker that keeps
> changing {qep’a’} to either “cep’a’” or “eep’a’”, and {batlh} becomes
> “bath”. So, while spelling has never really been my strong suit, when
> writing in Klingon, the computer is at fault more often than I am.
>
> pItlh
> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2015, at 11:04 AM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > {tugh batlh Heghmo’} "soon he dies with honor"
>
> i'm sorry to lead this discussion of track,but {-mo'} as i just
> saw,translates to <<due to,because of>>.
> why is then the translation <<soon he dies with honor>> and not <<soon he
> dies because of honor>> ?
>
>
> > {reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH} "they always fight with honor"
>
> {reH} always
> {batlh} honor
> {Suv} to fight
> {-taH} continuous
> {-jaj} may
> {chaH} they
>
> why <<they always fight with honor>> and not <<may they keep fighting with
> honor>> ?
>
> qunnoQ HoD
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Lieven <levinius at gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what the initial question was, but these examples do not
>> show a real answer, in my opinion. All of the multiple adverbials are
>> actually time stamps plus adverb, so not really "TWO" adverbs.
>> The only rule we can see here, is that time stamps come first:
>>
>> {tugh batlh Heghmo’}
>> "soon he dies with honor"
>>
>> {reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH}
>> "they always fight with honor"
>>
>> I don't see two adverbials here, unless you see vaj as one, which I see
>> more as a conjunction:
>>
>> > Hay’chu’ luneHqu’
>>
>>> vaj pe’vIl joqqu’
>>> cha’ tlhIngan tIqDu’
>>>
>>
>> Any examples with true aderbials or adverbs of the same type??
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lieven L. Litaer
>> aka Quvar valer 'utlh
>> Grammarian of the KLI
>> http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
>> http://www.klingonwiki.net
>>
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>>
>
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