[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC : Sentences as objects

[Will Martin]

There is no philosophy behind the omission of {‘e’} from Sentence As Object constructions using {neH}. It’s an exception to the rule. It does not indicate some deeper rule that hasn’t been discovered yet.

Basically, because of one of the famous subtitle screw-ups in one of the movies, an example with {neH} that SHOULD have had {‘e’} didn’t get it, so now, ALL use of {neH} doesn’t use {‘e’}. This is not true of any other verb.

So, to be clear, {neH} is an exception. Period. Do not derive any conclusion from this that relates to any other verb.

pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv



> On Dec 17, 2015, at 10:13 AM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> qavan Bellerophon and thank you for replying.
> 
>> Just read TKD 6.2.5.
> 
> i just read it again,and I understand (I think) the grammar it
> describes,as far as omitting the {'e'} is concerned. I was just
> wondering whether the same "philosophy" could be applied with other
> verbs too,besides want/say,tell,ask etc.
> 
>> you have problems with the last two sentences. Translate them literally into English, letting the chips fall where they may. I expect you'll get something totally different from your
>> intended meaning.
> 
> yes,that's true.. these sentences would be (respectively) :
> 
> they question him they forget
> you help me you run
> 
> true,these sound strange ; and I guess,unless someone is accustomed to
> the {neH} use in constructions such as these,(and assumes the writer
> employs the same "philosophy"),
> the meaning could very easily be obfuscated.
> 
> With all these in mind, yes,it could be possible to rewrite these two
> sentences in klingon,saying
> 
> {luyu'nIS 'e' lulIj} <they forgot that they needed to question him>
> {choQaHmeH bIqet} <in order to help me you run>
> 
> I just hoped there was a "simpler" way to express these sentences
> without having to resort to the use of {'e'} or {-meH}.
> 
> jIQaghlaw'..
> apparently I was mistaken..
> 
> thanks for clarifying all this for me though !
> 
> qavan Bellerophon.
> 
> qunnoQ Duj Qel
> 
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Bellerophon, modeler
> <bellerophon.modeler at gmail.com> wrote:
>> qunnoQ wrote:
>>> 
>>> qavan 'arHa'. I was wondering..
>>> 
>>> We know that we can say :
>>> 
>>> {jIQong vIneH} <I want to sleep.>
>>> {qalegh vIneH} <I want to see you.>
>>> {Dalegh vIneH} <I want you to see him/her.>
>>> {qama'pu' vIjonta' vIneH} <I wanted to capture prisoners.>
>>> 
>>> So I would like to ask you,if in a similar way one could say :
>>> 
>>> {Ha'DIbaHwIj DaHoH DanID} <you try to kill my dog>
>>> {luyu' lulIj} <they forget to question him>
>>> {choQaH bIqet} <you run to help me>
>>> 
>> 
>> I don't want to step on John's toes, but maybe he's busy today. I'm sure
>> he'll have good advice for you, but I can see that you'll be able answer
>> your own question. Just read TKD 6.2.5.
>> After you take care of that, you have problems with the last two sentences.
>> Translate them literally into English, letting the chips fall where they
>> may. I expect you'll get something totally different from your intended
>> meaning.
>> When we stick an infinitive after a verb, like "You try to kill," "They
>> forget to question," or "You run to help," each one uses the infinitive in a
>> different role. We know what it means in each case, but we're so used to the
>> weird things English does, we rarely notice that they're weird. If you think
>> about how the two verbs are related in each case to form the overall
>> meaning, you'll find a better way to say it in Klingon.
>> ~'eD
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> My modeling blog:          http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
>> My other modeling blog:  http://bellerophon.blog.com/
>> 
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> 
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