[Tlhingan-hol] Use Klingon!

[Will Martin]

Comments below (since this is not marked KLBC)

pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv



> On Dec 9, 2015, at 3:28 PM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> jIghelmeH jIgheltaH not 'e' jIjatlh vIneH
> I want to say that I never ask,for the purpose of asking

Verbs of speech are special. They have exceptional grammar, when you are making direct quotations.

Reading what you’ve written, I see, “I (subject of {neH}) want that (invisible object of {neH} representing the entire preceding sentence) I (subject of {jatlh} … [but now the prefix indicates no object, but you have the pronoun {‘e’} placed as if it were the object of {jatlh}.]

So, you need to either change {jI-} to {vI-} or you need to omit {‘e’}. Which choice?

Okrand has told us that {jatlh} can take a direct object that is either a language (like {tlhIngan} or {DIvI’ Hol}) or a word for some unit of speech, like {lut} or {SoQ}. It can NOT take a direct quotation as a direct object. Direct quotations are special.

For a direct quotation, you offer two completely independent sentences. One is the sentence that tells you that someone said something. The other one is what the person said. It doesn’t matter which comes first. So:

jIjatlh. le’ SoQ.
I said, “The speech is special.” or “The speech is special,” I said.

le’ SoQ. jIjatlh.
I said, “The speech is special.” or “The speech is special,” I said.

Here on the list, we usually mark quotations with << and >>, but that’s OUR convention, not Okrand’s. We’re just trying to make the meaning clear. So:

jIjatlh. <<le’ SoQ.>>
<<le’ SoQ.>> jIjatlh.

So, that’s how direct quotations are done. When Okrand first explained this, he gave us no means of offering indirect quotation or paraphrasing. We just had to use direct quotation or no form of quotation at all. Several people here pushed for indirect quotation. I honestly don’t remember if this was ever resolved, and if it was, how the grammar is handled.

…though I feel certain someone else will remember, since that would be another opportunity for me to be wrong, and I should NEVER pass up an opportunity to be wrong.

To boldly err where no one has erred before… [cue the music]

> 'ach taghwI' bora'DI' mu'tlheghmeyraj mugh
> however when you tell a beginner to translate your sentences
> 
> boQIj 'e' ghel 'e' SupIHnIs
> you need to expect that he will ask that you explain to him

Given that {‘ach} is a conjunction, this is a really long sentence — with a couple of nested {‘e’} extensions… It’s probably more complex than you think it is.

I’d suggest that you are using {-DI’} when you really mean {-chugh}. Also, {boQIj ‘e’ ghel} possibly has a similar kind of quotation problem, since {ghel} is a speech word. And if it needs direct quotation, you probably need to adjust the prefix on {boQIj}. I’m not sure about this.

But I’m sure someone else will be… [and no, I actually don’t have any particular person in mind. I just know they are out there.]

> yajbe'bogh pab
> the grammar which he doesn't understand.

This looks like the end of the English sentence, but in Klingon, it needs to precede {boQIj}.

> toH ! nuq boneH ?
> So ! what do you want ?
> 
> wuq !
> decide !

Consider {yIwuq!} You haven’t been clipping anything up to this point.

> Hu' {jIvIptaH} jIlo'nIs 'e' vIchup vay'.
> days ago someone suggested i need to use {jIvIptaH}..

There is no verb {vIp}, and the suffix {-vIp} is one that culturally isn’t common among Klingons. It attracts attention. You probably shouldn’t use it, unless you want attention. It’s kind of like the “F” word in English. Be careful who you use it around. You could upset people.

People think {jay’} is like the “F” word, but you have to remember that among Klingons, the “F” word is “Fear”. {jay’} is intensive, but it’s not socially problematic. {-vIp} is socially problematic. Especially when combined with {-taH}. People will stare with disapproval in their eyes.

> vaj KLBCDaq jIghel
> so I asked in KLBC
> 
> DaH.. vIghIpDIjnISlu'a' ?
> now.. do i need to be courtmartialled ?

ghaytanHa’. naDev juppu’ tu’lu’.

> qun HoD
> 

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