[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: "Which" and uses of question words

[lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh]

I have no idea what {puq nuqtaH yaS?} is supposed to mean.

I’m completely without so much as a guess. I start, and then I fail. I try again, and I fail again.

I’m not comfortable using any affixes on question words, unless Okrand gives us an example, and so far as I know, he hasn’t. 

I might see something as simple as *{pa’ ‘IvtaH}*, using the example of {pa’ ghaHtaH} as the answer, but the fact remains that question words are not supposed to be replaced by pronouns. They are supposed to be replaced by actual nouns, and nouns can’t take {-taH}. I suspect that the usage of {‘Iv} and {nuq} as standing in for verbal pronouns is just a shortcut, and as such, you don’t give them the full grammatical usage as if they actually WERE pronouns.

This is just a guess, but it’s probably a pretty good guess.

lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh
Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably



> On Dec 6, 2015, at 9:16 PM, Bellerophon, modeler <bellerophon.modeler at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm glad I was reading this thread. I was not aware that nuq and 'Iv can be used as verbs the way pronouns can, as SuStel pointed out. I think I recently wrote to this list something like <Dochvam 'oH nuq'e'?>, which I suppose would be okay, but <Dochvam nuq?> is so much simpler.
> Could you, then, ask a question like <puq nuqtaH yaS?>
> ~'eD
> 
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 8:53 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh <lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com <mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Thank you. This is interesting. I think that you are right. There is no restriction of asking this kind of question because, just like any other question formed with {nuq} or {‘Iv}, the answer could be formed by repeating the sentence verbatim with the answer replacing the question word, and you are not relying on any hidden form of the missing Klingon question word corresponding to the English “which”.
> 
> lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh
> Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 6, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh at hotmail.com <mailto:qeslagh at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> jIjatlhpu' jIH:
>> > We have no canon for {nuq} in noun-noun constructions, but I do think
>> > it's possible to say things like {nuq taj} "the knife of what?", which
>> > would parallel {'Iv taj} "whose knife?". Similarly, {taj nuq} would be
>> > "what of the knife?". To contrive an example, {voDleH nuq vItlhapnIS}
>> > would mean "what [thing] belonging to the emperor must I take?".
>> 
>> mujang SuStel, jatlh:
>> > Actually we have a couple of canonical sentences that show that {nuq} 
>> > and {'Iv} can act like verbs in the same way that pronouns can, and 
>> > Okrand confirmed this in an MSN post that I don't seem to have archived.
>> 
>> (poD vay')
>> 
>> Oh yes, I'm well aware of the verbal usage of {nuq} and {'Iv}. I know that {taj nuq} as a complete utterance would only ever be interpreted as a pro-verbal construction "what is a knife?". What I'm saying is that we don't have any canon for the use of these pronouns specifically in a noun-noun construction: that is, not just happening to appear next to a noun, but taking the same kind of genitive relationship that is usual in a noun-noun construction. In other words, can we say things like {'Iv 'etlh Dayan} "whose sword are you wielding?", or {voDleH nuq vItlhapnIS} "what thing of the emperor's must I take?".
>> 
>> Canon is silent on this, but I don't see any reason why not, and in these instances any ambiguity with pro-verbal constructions would be resolved by the presence of another finite verb in the sentence, which would force a nominal interpretation of {'Iv} and {nuq} instead of a verbal one.
>> 
>> QeS 'utlh
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