[Tlhingan-hol] A moment of clarity

[qunnoQ HoD]

> tlhIngan ghaHchug leonIDaS Qang

aargh ! {-'e'} vIlIj.. {tlhIngan ghaHchug leonIDaS'e' Qang}

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 3:31 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I tagged this e-mail in November. I don’t speak Greek, but qunnoQ HoD’s observation is important: a phrase can be powerful in one language, while it is weak in > another. The second language is not defective, merely different. Learn this lesson well.
>
> bIlugh ! reH,Hol wa'Dich QaQ law' Hoch QaQ puS. meqvam gorqon Qang
> jatlh : <..ladbe'chugh SeQpIr..> ; tlhIngan ghaHchug leonIDaS Qang,
> tlhIngan <molon lave> QaQ law' 'elaDya'ngan <molon lave> QaQ puS.
> taghwI'vaD Qatlh vItvam 'ach 'utqu' 'oH. Do', tagha' vIyaj..
>
> qun HoD
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:38 AM,  <qov at kli.org> wrote:
>> qaStaHvIS jar wa’maH wa’ jabbI’IDvam vIper.  ‘elaDya’ Hol vIjatlhbe’, ‘ach
>> potlh qech tu’bogh qunnoQ HoD: Hol wa’DIchvaD HoSlaH mu’tlhegh, Hol
>> cha’DIchvaD pujtaHvIS. Duy’be’ Hol cha’DIch. pIm neH. paQDI’norghvam
>> yIghojqu’.
>>
>>
>>
>> translation:
>>
>> I tagged this e-mail in November. I don’t speak Greek, but qunnoQ HoD’s
>> observation is important: a phrase can be powerful in one language, while it
>> is weak in another. The second language is not defective, merely different.
>> Learn this lesson well.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Qov
>>
>>
>>
>> From: qunnoQ HoD [mailto:mihkoun at gmail.com]
>> Sent: November 11, 2015 9:07
>> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
>> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] A moment of clarity
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A moment of clarity
>>
>> I just realized something,which i would like to share with the rest of the
>> list,since i believe it will be of benefit to beginners,such as myself. This
>> concerns something,which is well known to experienced klingonists,still it
>> remains something that newcomers may find hard to digest. At least i was
>> finding hard to digest myself,until the following happened.
>>
>> earlier today i was wondering how to translate in klingon king leonidas'
>> response to the persian messenger,who asked him to surrender his arms ; i
>> was wondering how to translate in klingon the "come and get them" which i
>> believe more or less almost everyone has heard of.
>>
>> but as i was trying to figure out how to say this phrase in
>> klingon,something didn't feel right.. It was not that I couldn't figure out
>> the klingon translation. It was that I couldn't convey in klingon the
>> "feeling" of this phrase. No matter what i did,it just didn't *feel* right.
>>
>> but then it hit me ! and the realization which followed,made things clearer
>> in a most spectacular way. It was as if i was trying to find my way in a
>> dark room,until suddenly the lights went on and everything became clearer.
>>
>> but first let me write some details,which are essential to this post.
>>
>> the actual phrase that king Leonidas spoke to the persian messenger,is
>> "molon lave" in ancient greek. Every greek person,even one who doesn't know
>> ancient greek,who will hear the "molon lave" will *feel* that this is as
>> defiant a phrase,as it could be possibly be. In fact,many times myself i
>> have wondered about the look on the persian's messenger face when he heard
>> it. let alone the look on the xerxes face..
>>
>> but if one tries to translate this phrase in the greek people speak
>> today,the "molon lave" will degrade to a mere "come and get them" which in
>> no way does it retain even the slightest defiance/aggression as the original
>> phrase did.
>>
>> ..and the even bigger problem is,that even if someone tried to find all
>> kinds of workarounds/linguistic fixes then again,there is no way that modern
>> greek could convey the outstanding (and that's an understatement) feeling of
>> the original phrase.
>>
>> thinking all this,i asked myself..
>>
>> does the fact that modern greek fail to express the feeling of "molon
>> lave",mean that modern greek are deficient ? and if i cannot translate in
>> current greek such a simple phrase,then why should i demand that klingon
>> would be in a position of expressing this phrase's feeling ?
>>
>> finally i realized,that one cannot expect any given language to be able to
>> translate and express everything,and in the exact same way that any other
>> language has to say. things don't work that way.
>>
>> anything written originally in a language (real or constructed) has its
>> beauty expressed in exactly that original language. any possible inability
>> to convey the same beauty in another language is not a sign of "deficiency"
>> ; it is rather a natural consequence of the simple fact that languages are
>> meant to be diverse. they are meant to be different,the same way that
>> individual people are always different compared to each other.
>>
>> maybe this is the reason why chancellor gorkon's words,will always echo in
>> our minds "..you have not experienced shakespeare,until you have read him in
>> the original klingon.."
>>
>> be that as it may..
>>
>> SpartanS,nuHmeyraj tIchagh !
>> ghochol 'ej bIH tISuq !
>>
>> cpt qunnoQ
>>
>>
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>>