[Tlhingan-hol] A moment of clarity

[qunnoQ HoD]

> I tagged this e-mail in November. I don’t speak Greek, but qunnoQ HoD’s observation is important: a phrase can be powerful in one language, while it is weak in > another. The second language is not defective, merely different. Learn this lesson well.

bIlugh ! reH,Hol wa'Dich QaQ law' Hoch QaQ puS. meqvam gorqon Qang
jatlh : <..ladbe'chugh SeQpIr..> ; tlhIngan ghaHchug leonIDaS Qang,
tlhIngan <molon lave> QaQ law' 'elaDya'ngan <molon lave> QaQ puS.
taghwI'vaD Qatlh vItvam 'ach 'utqu' 'oH. Do', tagha' vIyaj..

qun HoD


On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:38 AM,  <qov at kli.org> wrote:
> qaStaHvIS jar wa’maH wa’ jabbI’IDvam vIper.  ‘elaDya’ Hol vIjatlhbe’, ‘ach
> potlh qech tu’bogh qunnoQ HoD: Hol wa’DIchvaD HoSlaH mu’tlhegh, Hol
> cha’DIchvaD pujtaHvIS. Duy’be’ Hol cha’DIch. pIm neH. paQDI’norghvam
> yIghojqu’.
>
>
>
> translation:
>
> I tagged this e-mail in November. I don’t speak Greek, but qunnoQ HoD’s
> observation is important: a phrase can be powerful in one language, while it
> is weak in another. The second language is not defective, merely different.
> Learn this lesson well.
>
>
>
> - Qov
>
>
>
> From: qunnoQ HoD [mailto:mihkoun at gmail.com]
> Sent: November 11, 2015 9:07
> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] A moment of clarity
>
>
>
>
> A moment of clarity
>
> I just realized something,which i would like to share with the rest of the
> list,since i believe it will be of benefit to beginners,such as myself. This
> concerns something,which is well known to experienced klingonists,still it
> remains something that newcomers may find hard to digest. At least i was
> finding hard to digest myself,until the following happened.
>
> earlier today i was wondering how to translate in klingon king leonidas'
> response to the persian messenger,who asked him to surrender his arms ; i
> was wondering how to translate in klingon the "come and get them" which i
> believe more or less almost everyone has heard of.
>
> but as i was trying to figure out how to say this phrase in
> klingon,something didn't feel right.. It was not that I couldn't figure out
> the klingon translation. It was that I couldn't convey in klingon the
> "feeling" of this phrase. No matter what i did,it just didn't *feel* right.
>
> but then it hit me ! and the realization which followed,made things clearer
> in a most spectacular way. It was as if i was trying to find my way in a
> dark room,until suddenly the lights went on and everything became clearer.
>
> but first let me write some details,which are essential to this post.
>
> the actual phrase that king Leonidas spoke to the persian messenger,is
> "molon lave" in ancient greek. Every greek person,even one who doesn't know
> ancient greek,who will hear the "molon lave" will *feel* that this is as
> defiant a phrase,as it could be possibly be. In fact,many times myself i
> have wondered about the look on the persian's messenger face when he heard
> it. let alone the look on the xerxes face..
>
> but if one tries to translate this phrase in the greek people speak
> today,the "molon lave" will degrade to a mere "come and get them" which in
> no way does it retain even the slightest defiance/aggression as the original
> phrase did.
>
> ..and the even bigger problem is,that even if someone tried to find all
> kinds of workarounds/linguistic fixes then again,there is no way that modern
> greek could convey the outstanding (and that's an understatement) feeling of
> the original phrase.
>
> thinking all this,i asked myself..
>
> does the fact that modern greek fail to express the feeling of "molon
> lave",mean that modern greek are deficient ? and if i cannot translate in
> current greek such a simple phrase,then why should i demand that klingon
> would be in a position of expressing this phrase's feeling ?
>
> finally i realized,that one cannot expect any given language to be able to
> translate and express everything,and in the exact same way that any other
> language has to say. things don't work that way.
>
> anything written originally in a language (real or constructed) has its
> beauty expressed in exactly that original language. any possible inability
> to convey the same beauty in another language is not a sign of "deficiency"
> ; it is rather a natural consequence of the simple fact that languages are
> meant to be diverse. they are meant to be different,the same way that
> individual people are always different compared to each other.
>
> maybe this is the reason why chancellor gorkon's words,will always echo in
> our minds "..you have not experienced shakespeare,until you have read him in
> the original klingon.."
>
> be that as it may..
>
> SpartanS,nuHmeyraj tIchagh !
> ghochol 'ej bIH tISuq !
>
> cpt qunnoQ
>
>
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