[Tlhingan-hol] Religious terminology

[qunnoQ HoD]

> Earlier, I wrote a message to you, to which I have not received a reply.

QIn vIHevbe'

> If you're stuck, ask for help.

reH,QaH vItlhob. ghojmoHwI'pu' vIneH. QaH vIneH. boQ vIneH.
pInmeyqoq Doch,vIlajQo'qu'.

> (I'm not commenting on your "One Ring" translation)

QInvam vISuqbe' ; lajQo'lu' e' jIQub

> I don't see the point of repeating the same thing
in two different threads.)

bIlugh. DaH,meq tu'lu'be'..

> (Suggestion: one does not "have" a language in Klingon.)

wa'Hu' jIHech : tlhIngan Hol ghaj marq 'oqranD neH.


qun HoD

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh at hotmail.com> wrote:
> jatlhpu' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv, jatlh:
>> Kahless the Unforgettable never asked ANYBODY to turn the other cheek.
>
> teHbej! jatlhlu' net Sov, {DabuQlu'DI' yISuv}... {DabuQlu'DI' yIjegh} not
> jatlhrup tlhIngan net Sovchu'.
>
> taH:
>> Someone writing in asking for us to translate a lot of Christian terms
>> that
>> don’t exist in the language and likely have no parallel in the culture
>> intended
>> as a tool to help a beginner know how to translate something they want to
>> translate is probably barking up the wrong tree.
>
> wa' DoS wIqIp. 'ach qechmeyvetlh mughmeH mu'mey'e' DInobta' je 'op maH.
> majangpu' jIH latlh jatlhwI'pu' je. taHtaHqu'bogh ja'chuqtaHghach vIyajbe'
> 'e' vIchIDqangbej.
>
> jang qunnoQ, jatlh:
>> It is not *what* a beginner should translate. It is rather *why* he wants
>> to
>> translate and *how* he proceeds doing it.
>
> 'ach, qunnoQ, laHDaj noHnISchu' taghwI'vetlh (Hoch jatlhwI'pu' je) 'ej
> laHDajvaD bo'Dagh'a' lo'be'nIS. ghItlh mughmeH 'utbogh laH nIv law' jatlhwI'
> laH nIv puS 'e' tu'DI' vay', DoSDaj choH chaq 'e' qelnIS. vay'vaD tlhoy
> Qatlhba'chugh Qu', chay' chavlaH? 'ej chay' tIvlaH nIDtaHvIS? Qu'Daj
> Qatlhqu'moH mogh'eghmoHwI'.
> With that said, qunnoQ, the beginner (well, all speakers, really) should
> also be able to judge their own abilities without exaggerating them. If one
> finds out that the ability required to engage in a translation is beyond
> them, then perhaps they should consider shifting their target. If a task is
> clearly too difficult for someone, how will they achieve it? And more
> importantly, how will they be able to enjoy it while they do? Someone who
> gets themselves frustrated makes their task very hard.
>
> taH:
>> So he chooses passages that an average human being would understand,
>> and he tries applying what he has learned.
>
> vaj yIruch. ghu'vammo' maQochbe' jIH lojmIt tI'wI' nuv je: vuDmeymajvo'
> pInobpu'pu'bogh Sov Dalo'choHlaw'Qo'. DaH qechmeyvetlh tIlo'choH. vay'
> yImugh. yImughvIpQo'. pIQaH 'e' yIchaw'choH. meq law'mo' ratlhtaH tetlh
> qanwI'pu'Hey; taghwI'pu' QaHqangtaHghach 'oH wa' meq'e'.
> Go for it. lojmIt tI'wI' nuv and I agree on this point: with all respect,
> you don't seem to be actually putting into action the knowledge gleaned from
> the opinions we've given. Don't be afraid to try now to put those ideas into
> action and perhaps translate something using these thoughts. Let us help you
> - that's one reason why the senior members, as you put it, stick around on
> the list.
>
> SuStelvaD jang qunnoQ, jatlh:
>> And this gives me the opportunity to discuss something you (and almost
>> every other senior member here), do not realize. The way you write is
>> way too complex for a beginner to understand. You don't realize
>> this, because you can write fluently and this all seems easy to you. It
>> is understandable ; But no beginner could follow up with your level.
>
> boQ DaHutlhchu'chugh, teHbej. 'e' vISovbej. 'ach TKD yIlo'. boQwI' yIlo'.
> mu' HaqwI' yIlo'. boQbogh janHommey law' tu'lu'. bIH tIlo'. 'ej Qu'lIj
> DanapmoHlaHbej; mu'tlhegh yIghor. Hoch mu''e' nIteb yIpoj. mu' 'ay'mey
> tIghov: moHaq, mojaqmey je. qech 'oSbogh mu' yIloy. ghIq mu'mey tIrar, 'ej
> qech 'oSbogh mu'tlhegh yIloy. nI'law' 'ej Dallaw' mIwvetlh 'e' vISovchu',
> 'ach tugh ngeDchoH 'ej ngeDqu'choH. SIbI'Ha', nom DachavlaH. tagha' mIw
> DaQubnISbe'qu'choH. qaSchoH neH. SoHvaD 'Iqqu'law' ghItlhmajmu'mey, QInmaj
> mu'mey je 'e' vISIv. vIyajlaHqu'. 'ach rap mIw: Hoch mu''e', Hoch
> mu'tlhegh'e', nIteb tIpoj.
> For my part I do realise that you wouldn't be able to do so unaided. But
> that's what TKD is for. That's why there are apps like boQwI', and mu'
> HaqwI' that you can use. The grammar is, with extremely few exceptions, all
> laid out in TKD. And you can make your task simpler: break up the sentence,
> analyse each word alone, recognise its parts, prefixes and suffixes. Then
> try to work out what the individual words mean. Then try to put those
> together and work out what all those words mean together. It sounds a long
> and arduous process, I know, but eventually it will get easier and easier.
> Later you'll be able to do it very quickly. Soon you won't need to think
> about the process at all. It will just happen. I wonder if you're simply
> daunted by the volume of text. That's fair enough, but it's the same as any
> other text: one word, one phrase, one sentence at a time.
>
> taH:
>> So,you cannot expect someone to be able to keep up with you,conversing
>> freely so that then,and only then he will be "deemed worthy" to start
>> translating anything.
>
> pItuch wIneHbe'chu'. Hol voDleH maHbe'ba'. 'ach yIqel: ghItlh'a'mey Qatlh
> DamughlaH 'e' DaQub'a' SoH'e'? ghu'vetlhmo' ghItlh nap DamughmeH
> pItungHa'moH 'e' wInID. ghItlh DamughchoHDI', mIw wa'DIch Data', 'ach Hol
> Dalo'laHDI', mIw paghDIch Data'.
> Nobody wants to forbid you anything. We're not the emperors of the language.
> But put it this way: do *you* think you'd be up to translating a complex
> text? That's why we're trying to encourage you to start small, with the
> building blocks. As it might be said in Klingon, starting the translation is
> the first step, but being able to use the language is the step before that.
>
> lojmIt tI'wI' nuvvaD jang je qunnoQ, jatlh:
>> b. that "someone" asked for the opinion of other members here,on a
>> subject which as you said,has been translated by one of the most
>> fluent speakers ever.
>> c. that "someone" wrote that he doesn't intend to translate the bible
>
> vabDot Bible 'ay'Hommey Damugh DaneHchugh, qay'be'qu'. yIruch. 'ach wej
> yapchugh laHlIj, yapbe' 'e' yItemQo'. (vIjatlhDI' qatIchbe'qu'; taghwI'
> jIHpu' je jIH'e'. jIHvaD rapqu' je mIw.)
> Even if you want to translate Bible sections, no problem at all. But if your
> abilities are not enough it's not going to help you to deny that fact. (And
> when I say so I'm not trying to insult; I was a beginner once myself. The
> process was just like this for me too.)
>
>> d. that "someone" will not ask for your permission,in order to
>> translate anything he chooses
>
> 'utbe'qu'. vay' Damugh DaneHchugh, yIruch. vaj bIqeqlaH 'ej laHlIj DaDublaH.
> Of course. If you want to translate something, do go ahead. That way you can
> practise and improve your abilities.
>
>> f. don't speak of Jesus in vain ; you don't have the right to insult
>> other people's beliefs.
>
> cha'logh jIjang vIneH, 'ach DIvI' Hol vIlo'be'choH, tlhIngan Hol bopbogh qoj
> yughbogh ghItlh'e' DaH vIqonbe'lI'mo'.
>
> wa'DIch: Jesus tIchpu' 'e' Hechbe' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'e' vIHon. pIm neH
> Jesus qeylIS je 'e' jatlh 'ej Bible ghItlhmey mughmeH Qu' QatlhmoH ngoDvetlh
> 'e' cha'law'. cha'DIch: qechlIj'e' jIQoch jIH. nuvpu' quv'e' lutIchbe'nISlu'
> 'e' vIHarbej; 'ach qechmey'e' Harbogh nuvpu', vaqnISlaH vay', pojnISlaH
> vay', tobHa'nISlaH vay'. DoS mojnISlaH Hoch qech. ram qech Segh:
> QochlaHghach tuchlu'DI', Qobqu' ghu'.
>
> SKI: QeS disagrees, but refuses to go off-topic to discuss that in English.
>
> QeS 'utlh
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol at kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>