[Tlhingan-hol] Religious terminology

[Rohan Fenwick]

jatlhpu' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv, jatlh:
> Kahless the Unforgettable never asked ANYBODY to turn the other cheek.

teHbej! jatlhlu' net Sov, {DabuQlu'DI' yISuv}... {DabuQlu'DI' yIjegh} not jatlhrup tlhIngan net Sovchu'.

taH:
> Someone writing in asking for us to translate a lot of Christian terms that
> don’t exist in the language and likely have no parallel in the culture intended
> as a tool to help a beginner know how to translate something they want to
> translate is probably barking up the wrong tree.

wa' DoS wIqIp. 'ach qechmeyvetlh mughmeH mu'mey'e' DInobta' je 'op maH. majangpu' jIH latlh jatlhwI'pu' je. taHtaHqu'bogh ja'chuqtaHghach vIyajbe' 'e' vIchIDqangbej.
 
jang qunnoQ, jatlh:
> It is not *what* a beginner should translate. It is rather *why* he wants to
> translate and *how* he proceeds doing it.

'ach, qunnoQ, laHDaj noHnISchu' taghwI'vetlh (Hoch jatlhwI'pu' je) 'ej laHDajvaD bo'Dagh'a' lo'be'nIS. ghItlh mughmeH 'utbogh laH nIv law' jatlhwI' laH nIv puS 'e' tu'DI' vay', DoSDaj choH chaq 'e' qelnIS. vay'vaD tlhoy Qatlhba'chugh Qu', chay' chavlaH? 'ej chay' tIvlaH nIDtaHvIS? Qu'Daj Qatlhqu'moH mogh'eghmoHwI'.
With that said, qunnoQ, the beginner (well, all speakers, really) should also be able to judge their own abilities without exaggerating them. If one finds out that the ability required to engage in a translation is beyond them, then perhaps they should consider shifting their target. If a task is clearly too difficult for someone, how will they achieve it? And more importantly, how will they be able to enjoy it while they do? Someone who gets themselves frustrated makes their task very hard.

taH:
> So he chooses passages that an average human being would understand,
> and he tries applying what he has learned.

vaj yIruch. ghu'vammo' maQochbe' jIH lojmIt tI'wI' nuv je: vuDmeymajvo' pInobpu'pu'bogh Sov Dalo'choHlaw'Qo'. DaH qechmeyvetlh tIlo'choH. vay' yImugh. yImughvIpQo'. pIQaH 'e' yIchaw'choH. meq law'mo' ratlhtaH tetlh qanwI'pu'Hey; taghwI'pu' QaHqangtaHghach 'oH wa' meq'e'.
Go for it. lojmIt tI'wI' nuv and I agree on this point: with all respect, you don't seem to be actually putting into action the knowledge gleaned from the opinions we've given. Don't be afraid to try now to put those ideas into action and perhaps translate something using these thoughts. Let us help you - that's one reason why the senior members, as you put it, stick around on the list.

SuStelvaD jang qunnoQ, jatlh:
> And this gives me the opportunity to discuss something you (and almost
> every other senior member here), do not realize. The way you write is
> way too complex for a beginner to understand. You don't realize
> this, because you can write fluently and this all seems easy to you. It
> is understandable ; But no beginner could follow up with your level.

boQ DaHutlhchu'chugh, teHbej. 'e' vISovbej. 'ach TKD yIlo'. boQwI' yIlo'. mu' HaqwI' yIlo'. boQbogh janHommey law' tu'lu'. bIH tIlo'. 'ej Qu'lIj DanapmoHlaHbej; mu'tlhegh yIghor. Hoch mu''e' nIteb yIpoj. mu' 'ay'mey tIghov: moHaq, mojaqmey je. qech 'oSbogh mu' yIloy. ghIq mu'mey tIrar, 'ej qech 'oSbogh mu'tlhegh yIloy. nI'law' 'ej Dallaw' mIwvetlh 'e' vISovchu', 'ach tugh ngeDchoH 'ej ngeDqu'choH. SIbI'Ha', nom DachavlaH. tagha' mIw DaQubnISbe'qu'choH. qaSchoH neH. SoHvaD 'Iqqu'law' ghItlhmajmu'mey, QInmaj mu'mey je 'e' vISIv. vIyajlaHqu'. 'ach rap mIw: Hoch mu''e', Hoch mu'tlhegh'e', nIteb tIpoj.
For my part I do realise that you wouldn't be able to do so unaided. But that's what TKD is for. That's why there are apps like boQwI', and mu' HaqwI' that you can use. The grammar is, with extremely few exceptions, all laid out in TKD. And you can make your task simpler: break up the sentence, analyse each word alone, recognise its parts, prefixes and suffixes. Then try to work out what the individual words mean. Then try to put those together and work out what all those words mean together. It sounds a long and arduous process, I know, but eventually it will get easier and easier. Later you'll be able to do it very quickly. Soon you won't need to think about the process at all. It will just happen. I wonder if you're simply daunted by the volume of text. That's fair enough, but it's the same as any other text: one word, one phrase, one sentence at a time.

taH:
> So,you cannot expect someone to be able to keep up with you,conversing
> freely so that then,and only then he will be "deemed worthy" to start
> translating anything.

pItuch wIneHbe'chu'. Hol voDleH maHbe'ba'. 'ach yIqel: ghItlh'a'mey Qatlh DamughlaH 'e' DaQub'a' SoH'e'? ghu'vetlhmo' ghItlh nap DamughmeH pItungHa'moH 'e' wInID. ghItlh DamughchoHDI', mIw wa'DIch Data', 'ach Hol Dalo'laHDI', mIw paghDIch Data'.
Nobody wants to forbid you anything. We're not the emperors of the language. But put it this way: do *you* think you'd be up to translating a complex text? That's why we're trying to encourage you to start small, with the building blocks. As it might be said in Klingon, starting the translation is the first step, but being able to use the language is the step before that.

lojmIt tI'wI' nuvvaD jang je qunnoQ, jatlh:
> b. that "someone" asked for the opinion of other members here,on a
> subject which as you said,has been translated by one of the most
> fluent speakers ever.
> c. that "someone" wrote that he doesn't intend to translate the bible

vabDot Bible 'ay'Hommey Damugh DaneHchugh, qay'be'qu'. yIruch. 'ach wej yapchugh laHlIj, yapbe' 'e' yItemQo'. (vIjatlhDI' qatIchbe'qu'; taghwI' jIHpu' je jIH'e'. jIHvaD rapqu' je mIw.)
Even if you want to translate Bible sections, no problem at all. But if your abilities are not enough it's not going to help you to deny that fact. (And when I say so I'm not trying to insult; I was a beginner once myself. The process was just like this for me too.)

> d. that "someone" will not ask for your permission,in order to
> translate anything he chooses

'utbe'qu'. vay' Damugh DaneHchugh, yIruch. vaj bIqeqlaH 'ej laHlIj DaDublaH.
Of course. If you want to translate something, do go ahead. That way you can practise and improve your abilities.

> f. don't speak of Jesus in vain ; you don't have the right to insult
> other people's beliefs.

cha'logh jIjang vIneH, 'ach DIvI' Hol vIlo'be'choH, tlhIngan Hol bopbogh qoj yughbogh ghItlh'e' DaH vIqonbe'lI'mo'.

wa'DIch: Jesus tIchpu' 'e' Hechbe' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'e' vIHon. pIm neH Jesus qeylIS je 'e' jatlh 'ej Bible ghItlhmey mughmeH Qu' QatlhmoH ngoDvetlh 'e' cha'law'. cha'DIch: qechlIj'e' jIQoch jIH. nuvpu' quv'e' lutIchbe'nISlu' 'e' vIHarbej; 'ach qechmey'e' Harbogh nuvpu', vaqnISlaH vay', pojnISlaH vay', tobHa'nISlaH vay'. DoS mojnISlaH Hoch qech. ram qech Segh: QochlaHghach tuchlu'DI', Qobqu' ghu'.

SKI: QeS disagrees, but refuses to go off-topic to discuss that in English.

QeS 'utlh
 		 	   		  
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