[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Due to the refusal, the topic is forgotten

[lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh]

This is generally good advice, but don’t confuse the topic suffix {-‘e’} for the pronoun {‘e’}. The former is attached to a noun. The latter is a word unto itself. Your advice sounds like the word unto itself could be a pronoun or a topicalizer.

As for precisely what {-Qo’} is negating, there have been arguments over what {-be’} is negating in some cases (the immediate thing it follows, or the entire construction it follows), so there is no precise, consistent rule here. There’s an action of the verb, modified by its suffixes, and there’s a refusal. You figure it out.

{-meH} clauses must precede the noun or main clause they modify. Other Type 9 suffixes, like {-mo’} really are acceptable either preceding or following. I prefer preceding, but it’s a personal preference, not a grammatical rule. I have my reasons, but they carry no real weight. Okrand has explicitly stated that following is okay.

lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh
Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably



> On Dec 1, 2015, at 5:47 PM, John R. Harness <cartweel at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi! Thanks for using the KLBC tag!
> 
> I think you have indeed hit on an ambiguity. As far as I understand it, the {-Qo'} will negate the verb root unless it is otherwise made obvious from context. Maybe a more advanced speaker can clarify this.
> 
> As for suffix placement, the rule is described in section 4.3 of the dictionary: "Unlike {-be',} the position of {-Qo'} does not change: it occurs last, unless followed by a Type 9 suffix." Note: This is one of those "Rovers" that doesn't rove -- Thanks, Marc. wejpuH.
> 
> For this rule to be useful you'll need to remember the Type 9 suffixes, the "syntactic markers" -- -DI', -chugh, -pa', -vIS, -mo', -jaj, -ghach. (See section 4.2.9, and don't forget to check the same section in the addendum.)
> 
> Concerning -mo' and 'e', your sentences are correct except that I'm not sure what you are trying to do with the 'e' in your first sentence. 'e' is used to emphasize the topic of statements, in the "to be" statement ({ X 'oH/ghaH Y'e'} = X is Y}) and as a pronoun referring to a previous sentence. Check out TKD sections 3.3.5 and 6.3 for clarification. Also, I think it is generally considered good form but not mandatory that the -mo' statement proceed the rest of the sentence.
> 
> I think you are saying "Teacher! Do not forget!" However you should use -Qo' to make imperatives negative -- {yIlIjQo'}. I don't think you can use -lu' with an imperative.
> 
> I hope this helps! jatlhwI'pu', what do you think?
> 
> 'arHa
> 
> — 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:41:06 -0500
> From: fata irae <fatairae at gmail.com <mailto:fatairae at gmail.com>>
> To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol at kli.org <mailto:tlhingan-hol at kli.org>>
> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Due to the refusal, the topic is
>         forgotten
> Message-ID:
>         <CA+_YdeuQwLmCX-S3CnPkhVpJN6mFGDqnGvn4jd60Fg5gh0i5bQ at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CA%2B_YdeuQwLmCX-S3CnPkhVpJN6mFGDqnGvn4jd60Fg5gh0i5bQ at mail.gmail.com>>
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> 
> ghojmoHwI''e' yIlIjbe'lu'!
> 
> So, a couple ideas here, just throwing them out to see if I've got the
> right idea.
> 
> ----
> Playing with -Qo', and trying to figure out how to use it in a more complex
> construction.  Got simple ones like jItujQo', but when other suffixes enter
> the equation, I become unsure.
> 
> bIbIrlaHQo'
> You won't (refuse) be able to be cold
> You are able to refuse to be cold
> 
> The second makes more sense, but since the -Qo' must be at the end, it
> gives the impression of being applied to the entire concept.  Or is it just
> one of those ambiguities?
> 
> ----
> Playing with -mo', and incidentally playing with 'e', and wanted to make
> sure these made sense:
> 
> SuHeghlI' 'e' choleghpu'mo'
> They are dying, because you saw me
> 
> qulmo' matujchoH
> Due to the fire, we are becoming hot
> 
> ----
> Incidentally, did the initial statement make sense?
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