[Tlhingan-hol] Religious terminology

Tue Dec 1 09:11:32 PST 2015

This may sound strange,but it wasn't my intention to start translating
religious texts ; I mentioned the bible as an example of use for the
words that were the subject of this thread.
Since the subject of translating religious texts into Klingon came
up,I would like to say that as a greek-orthodox and someone who can
actually study the new testament into the language it was originally
written, I believe that it is impossible for any Klingonist to
translate the bible adequately in Klingon. Unless he just wants to
narrate in his own words the story of new testament.. But to actually
express in Klingon the dogmas,described in the bible is impossible.
Unless Okrand would create both new grammar and words too,then the
whole idea could never have a credible result as far as orthodox dogma
is concerned.
Now,I can almost *feel*  that someone,is about to hit the "reply"
button and start writing that Klingon is perfect,and that it can
describe everything and anything, that I should not have an opinion on
what can and cannot be done -since I'm a beginner- etc etc.
qay'be'.. lets just agree to disagree..

qun HoD

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun at gmail.com> wrote:
> The Gospel According to Mark is the largest book of The Bible to be
> translated so far.
> Interestingly enough, it was translated from Greek to Klingon by an atheist.
>
> Presumably, Nick Nicholas wasn't swayed to match his translation to a
> specific sect's doctrine, which IMO, gives us a better translation.
>
> As coordinator of the RTTP (Religious Text Translation Project) I realize
> that the number of bilingual Greek/Klingon atheists in the world is small.
> If someone wants to use an English (or French, or German) text as their
> base, I'd be okay with that.
> I would not be okay with a machine translation or anything just cobbled
> together; or slapdash as it was put earlier.
>
> Beginners probably shouldn't take on any large translation project; let them
> figure out how to translate their own words first.
> But I see no reason to suggest they don't discuss any specific topic, if
> that's what they want to discuss.
>
> Sure, there are easier topics to tackle; but if we have the vocabulary to
> tackle Mark...
>
> ~naHQun
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> As an honest atheist, the term “saint” is an alien word to me, and it’s
>> notable that it’s an English word and I’m a native English speaker. So, how
>> are you going to translate that into Klingon if you can’t really explain it
>> to me in English?
>>
>> I really think you might as well try to translate the term “replicator” in
>> the Star Trek universe into D’nai, a language of a fictional race that
>> doesn’t have replicators in their universe. Or maybe translate the term
>> “Holy Grail” to a language that belongs to a culture that has no religion
>> and no concept of “cup” and doesn’t intake any substance that doesn’t
>> require chewing. It’s like trying to come up with vocabulary for discussing
>> the engineering concepts behind support bras that “lift and separate” to a
>> culture of intelligent fungus who have no concept of engineering and have no
>> experience with breasts to be lifted or separated, and no idea why anyone
>> would want them lifted or separated.
>>
>> Or maybe take on the role of mattress salesman, trying to explain to a
>> Klingon the advantages of memory foam, ignoring the simple fact that
>> Klingons prefer to sleep on hard, cold surfaces.
>>
>> There are so many other things to talk about in the language for which the
>> language is well equipped. I really think you are starting off in a
>> direction for which you are poorly equipped, if this language is your tool.
>> You’d have to be exceptionally well skilled; more skilled than I am, and
>> I’ve been using this language since qep’a’ wa’DIch.
>>
>> I suggest that you build your skill in the language taking on less
>> challenging topics of translation, and then, years from now, once you have
>> grown strong and confident in your ability to translate simpler things,
>> perhaps return to your quest to translate religious texts into Klingon.
>> Otherwise, you will be overly dependent upon the kindness of strangers to do
>> most of your work for you.
>>
>> There have been two attempts, to my knowledge, at bible translation into
>> Klingon. One was slapdash, working from an English version of the bible,
>> satisfying the author and not really anybody else, and the other, a more
>> scholarly, academic attempt working from original language texts that was
>> never finished. It’s hard. VERY hard. It’s not really appropriate for a new
>> student of the language. Unless you want to create a second slapdash project
>> that garners very little respect because it is so badly done.
>>
>> I know this sounds sarcastic. It sounds like an anti-religious rant. While
>> some of that is true, because I have spent enough years subjected to
>> disrespect for my own religious beliefs, resolving that by deciding that
>> this stuff is personal and doesn’t really need public discussion any more
>> than one’s sex life, at the root of my message here is a truth worthy of
>> note:
>>
>> Religion is not an appropriate topic of translation for unskilled
>> beginners trying to learn the language. So, if you really are trying to
>> learn the language, you honestly would be better served working on some
>> other topic until you already have enough skills to answer the questions you
>> now ask others, because there are no short answers. It is not the case that
>> someone can answer a few questions, give you some vocabulary, and then you
>> can go off and translate the stuff you apparently want to translate.
>>
>> It’s simply not going to work that way. You need another approach.
>>
>> pItlh
>> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:55 AM, Anthony Appleyard <a.appleyard at btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I understood that a saint was a Christian who in early times did something
>> recognized as very holy, not merely "a member of the church, a fellow
>> believer or follower".
>>
>> Some saints were the first man who successfully preached Christiuanity in
>> an area, e.g. St. Patrick in Ireland, or St.David in Wales.
>>
>> Some saints were martyrs for their faith, e.g. St.Stephen who was stoned
>> to death.
>>
>> ----Original message----
>> From : nahqun at gmail.com
>> Date : 01/12/2015 - 12:09 (GMTST)
>> To : tlhingan-hol at stodi.digitalkingdom.org
>> Subject : Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Religious terminology
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 6:32 AM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I've been trying in vain,to find ways to express the following words
>> > in Klingon :
>> >
>> > bless (v)
>> > saint (n)
>> > sacred,to be sacred
>> > holy,to be holy
>> >
>> > Does anyone have any ideas ?
>> >
>>
>> A saint is a member of the church, a fellow believer or follower.
>> While I've seen {quvwI'pu'} used here before, and used it myself, you may
>> want to consider playing around with
>> {chuD} people, kin, member of the same group or tribe or clan
>> {tuqnIgh} a member of one's house
>> {vInDa'} compatriot, community member, cohort, fellow citizen
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> ~Michael Roney, Jr.
> Freelance Translator
>
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