[Tlhingan-hol] beyn Dartlh

[qunnoQ HoD]

I've been contemplating the whole {-Daq} subject,which came up
recently,and I'm sorry to say that I do not accept that it is to be
used only in reference to physical locations.
Throughout TKD,and KGT (at least as far as I have read until
now),cases in which only a specific application is allowed,Okrand has
made certain to explicitely state so. Where does he write that {-Daq}
is *exclusively* to be used for physical locations ? TKD says ""in the
vicinity of the noun to which it is attached". Why can't this
"vicinity" not concern an abstract concept ? Okrand is a linguist,and
I find it pretty hard to believe that if he intented for such a
narrow-minded concept of {-Daq},he wouldn't have explicitely made it
clear. It is as if a mechanic,building an engine simply "forgetting"
to include e.g, the transmision.
So,sorry but I do not accept the aforementioned use of {-Daq} unless
someone points me somewhere in Canon,where it is specifically stated
that {-Daq} is to be applied *only* to physical locations. Until
then,I will continue to use {-Daq} as it was used in the beginning of
this thread.
I'm not trying to convince anyone ; I'm just stating my opinion on all
this.. I'm sure that almost anyone will disagree,but as you say in
english "lets agree to disagree.."

qun HoD

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 7:07 PM, André Müller <esperantist at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2015-11-30 17:25 GMT+01:00 qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun at gmail.com>:
>>
>> > Would {Sith ghaH Darth Bane'e'} be sufficient for the meaning?
>>
>> This is a good question.. If I read the {Sith ghaH Darth Bane'e'}, I
>> would translate it in my mind as <<Darth Bane is (a) Sith>>. Is there
>> a way this could mean <<Among the Sith there was Darth Bane>> too ?
>> This may be a pretty a stupid question,but I'm asking because as a
>> beginner I have to assume that there may be alternate translations to
>> a given sentence,than just the one that I think is the obvious one..
>
>
> Even if the answer is "No.", it's a really good assumption. Some languages
> distinguish between 'X is the same as Y' and X is a member of the group of
> Y' in intriguing ways. Thai has a copula [pen] which just means 'to be', and
> another one, [kʰɯː] which means 'to be identical to', so when you use the
> 2nd copula, you're really equating X and Y, they are the exact same thing.
> You could say "Clark Kent kʰɯː Superman.", because they're the same person,
> but you'd say "Superman pen kʰon Krypton." (Superman is a Kryptonian). We
> don't have that in Klingon. And if the context is clear and it is well known
> what Sith are, then {Y ghaH X'e'.} is sufficient.
>
> If you speak about something that might not be commonly known to the
> audience, it might be useful to specify that Darth Bane is but one of the
> Siths. Another option is:
>
> {*Sith* tuqnIgh ghaH *Darth Bane*'e'.}
> 'Darth Bane is a member of the house of Sith.'
>
> It's not strictly a house, though. But the idea might still get across.
>
>>
>> > {tlhIngan ghaH wa' vub'e'.}
>>
>> Same comment here. If I didn't see your translation,I would take this
>> as <<One hostage is Klingon>>. But what about the other hostages ? Are
>> they Klingon too ?
>> The objective isn't to say "One Sith (lord) is Darth Bane" ; It is to
>> say that "among the Sith (group) exists Darth Bane".  What if I wanted
>> to say <<among the Klingon Chancellors was Gowron>> ? With the
>> <<Klingon Chancellors>> having an abstract meaning,for example <<the
>> Klingon Chancellors (of all Klingon history)>> ?
>
>
> Yes, 'One hostage is Klingon' is also a perfectly suitable translation. I
> think this is from Star Trek 5, where Sybok holds three hostages on Nimbus
> III, one is a Klingon, one is a Romulan, and the third one is Terran.
>
> We have to live with the fact that Klingon sentences can be ambiguous or
> vague. And they often are. But so are English sentences. If we want to be
> exact and avoid all missunderstandings, we'll have to define what the Sith
> are, anyway, a few sentences earlier, and then say that DB is a Sith. I
> think then it will be understood.
>
> - André