[Tlhingan-hol] keeping "KLI folklore" words in word lists

[De'vID]

De'vID:
>> I think everyone has made very good points, and the choice comes down
>> to a trade-off.

Quvar:
> No matter how you decide, you should make a clear difference between
> any fake words (from "extended canon") and those words approved (or
"vetted"
> or whatever you call it) by Marc Okrand, because that is what is
considered
> canon.

quSDaq bIba'.

It seems like most list regulars (at least of those who have replied) want
KLI slang removed. I've already removed *{HIlel} and {pabpo'} (and
*{tlhoqo'} and *{yID} were never in the database).

I guess from now on, if any grammarian welcomes a newbie to the list by
identifying himself/herself as {taghwI' pabpo'}, the newbie will just be
confused if they're relying on {boQwI'}.

Quvar:
> For instance, {jInjoq} was vetted by Okrand, so I see this as a true,
canon,
> proper, kosher tlhIngan Hol word. It needs no question mark. Maybe you
just
> forgot to remove it. The word is not questionable any more.

I specifically raised this question about the "vetted" words from
DeCandido's The Klingon Art of War:

De'vID:
> Speaking of which, since Marc Okrand has "vetted" some of DeCandido's
> words at the latest qepHom, should these be promoted from extended
> canon to canon? I've added {batqul} and {qInlat}, since these are
> words which have appeared in Star Trek canon (TV episodes), and I see
> Marc Okrand as only confirming their original Klingon spelling. OTOH,
> I see a word like *{ngengroQ}, which has appeared only in DeCandido's
> book and not on any Star Trek episode (AFAIK), as not a canon word,
> though I've included it as extended canon.

Should words like {ngengroQ} and {QIngheb}, which were apparently generated
using Bing translator, be considered canon even if they were vetted by
Okrand after the fact? If they had appeared in a TV episode or movie, I'd
have considered him to only be confirming their spelling. (So, for example,
{'a'Setbur} is now the canon spelling of Azetbur, and {Da'ar} is how you
write "Dahar Master".) But AFAIK {ngengroQ} does not appear anywhere except
in DeCandido's book. Perhaps I am conflating the concepts of Star Trek
canon and Okrandian Klingon canon, but I see the stuff that appear only in
DeCandido's book as having somewhat lesser status than stuff that appeared
in either Okrand's books or in actual Star Trek episodes/movies.

To be more specific, I don't see a need to have an entry for {Qa'taq}
"K'Ratak", a name which KRADeC made up, or any of the other names which
aren't from Star Trek canon. I didn't add an entry for {qo' Sor}, because
(AFAIK) the "Tree of the World" where the Klingon gods lived is a thing
KRADeC made up, and isn't from Star Trek canon. (Maybe it is, and I just
don't know.) And anyway, {qo'} and {Sor} are already canon entries and a
reader can easily construct the meaning of {qo' Sor} from that. I also
didn't think it was right to add an entry for {wa'jo''a'} "Wa'joh'a', the
first Klingon god", because it isn't Star Trek canon, and I don't want
someone searching for the Klingon word for "god" to find that and start
using it, or to believe that there was a first Klingon god (was there, in
Star Trek canon?). For things like {qaDrav} and {yobta' yupma'}, which are
at least made up of parts which are identifiable Okrandian canon, I've
added them with extended canon annotation. I've also added {jInjoq},
{qorvIt}, and other nouns, annotated as extended canon.

I guess I don't see DeCandido's words as entirely proper because he made up
a lot of nonsense in his book (like {chenmoH} for a martial arts "form").
Apparently, he relied on Bing translator rather than ask the KLI. That's
fine, many Star Trek licensed authors make up their own "Klingon", but I'd
consider their inventions extended canon. But maybe they become canon if
Okrand retroactively blesses them. But I just know that if I added {qo'
Sor} and {wa'jo''a'} to {boQwI'}, someone will email me to tell me that
it's nonsense, the Klingons don't have a first god and their gods didn't
live in a tree. I wish I had a way to annotate "Okrandian blessing of
extended canon" vs. "Okrandian canon compatible with Star Trek canon".

Since Alan and Felix are apparently going to be maintaining the New Words
list and extended corpus project for the KLI, I'd be interested in also
hearing whether they'd consider words like {wa'jo''a'} (and their attendant
concepts like "first Klingon god") to be canon or extended corpus. You guys
need to figure out what's canon and what's not among DeCandido's
inventions, and {boQwI'} will follow whatever convention is used in the KLI
web site. I don't have a problem with marking KRADeC's words which were
retroactively blessed by Okrand to be canon, if that's how others think of
them.

-- 
De'vID
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