[Tlhingan-hol] *'ap Wizard Dun: 'ay' wa': *ghoSuS*

[Michael Roney, Jr. PKT]

I kind of lost track of who said what...




> One of the cool things about the Oz books is that the magic's not quite so
> pervasively active as in the Harry Potter series; it's just accepted as
> being, and manifests more in odd things than odd activities per se (the Tin
> Woodman, talking lions, Tik-Tok, etc.). So I get the feeling it could be
> relatively straightforward to do. Come to think of it, I've never actually
> read this book myself, I think. I've read others in the series, but never
> this one.

You've never read the first book, but you've read some of the others?

Yes, this would certainly be easier than translating Harry Potter.
It's been a while since I've read the series, so it'll I'm not quite
sure what I'm up against in the upcoming chapters.

>
>> I may or may not get to Chapter 2.
>
> yIruch!

luq.

>
>>   wIjwI' ghaH 'IrneH Henry'e'.[1]
>>   wIjwI' be'nal ghaH me'nal Em'e'.
>>
>> [1] I'm wondering if I'm actually supposed to put "aunt" and "uncle"
>> after the names; like titles.
>
> Unless we have canon to the contrary, I definitely would.  One can quibble about "aunt" and 'uncle" being titles per se, but they are labels.
>

> I agree with Voragh - probably best to put it after the name.

> Or rework it to make it unnecessary to put the name and the "title"
> next to each other:
>
>   Dorothy 'IrneH ghaH Henry''e'. wIjwI' ghaH.
>   Dorothy me'nal ghaH Em'e'. wIjwI' be'nal ghaH.
>
> Then just refer to them later by name or title alone.


I'll switch them around.
I knew it was the reverse order, but I just couldn't get "Aunty Em"
out of my head.

>Haven't been following this, but "Aunty Em" is the way Dorothy addresses her, so one can't avoid it completely.

See.

>Klingons have four types of aunts to choose from:
>
>me'             aunt (mother's sister)
>me'nal                  aunt (mother's brother's wife)
>'e'mam                  aunt (father's sister)
>'e'mamnal       aunt (father's brother's wife)
>
>Do we know what Auntie Em's exact relationship was to Dorothy?
>If {me'}, perhaps you could say *{me'oy} for "auntie": i.e. *{'em me'oy}.
>Azetbur put {-oy} on {vav} in ST6 so *{me'oy} is at least plausible, at least for a child.
>
>BTW I saw the Rosalind Russell version of "Auntie Mame" this weekend and Mame was indeed the boy's father's sister which leads me to suspect that Em is Dorothy's mother's sister.
>

We do not know which one is the blood relative.
So we can go either way on this.
However, some people assume it's Henry as he's the only one to talk
about Dorothy's mother.

>Anyway, in the book it's just "Aunt Em" with no endearment apparent.
>Dorothy speaks to her only once, in the very last paragraph.
>She does refer to her aunt and uncle by name several times throughout the story, though.

Aw, but "Aunty Em" is just so classic!

>>   juH bIngDaq 'oH QemjIq[2].
>>
>> [2] Wasn't sure how to render "storm cellar", so I went with "hole"
>> for now; which is basically what it is.
>
> Don't forget the noun {wutlh} "underground":  *{wutlh pa'}?

> QemjIq'e'. I like Voragh's suggestion of something involving wutlh
> "underground".

I was considring {wutlh pa'}, but went with {QemjIq} while I was still
processing other options.


>
>>   DInDaq[3] QamtaHvIS; Hatlh bej Dorothy.
>>
>> [3] I don't think that {DIn} is the word I'm looking for, but {qa'rI'}
>> doesn't seem to fit either.
>
> If you go with {DIn} "open entryway (to corridor, tunnel, conduit, Jeffries tube, etc.)" then you can change {QemjIq} to {'och}:  *{wutlh 'och}?  (Come to think of it, an underground tunnel sounds like a very practical addition to any Klingon home!  One can take shelter in it or use it to escape your enemies or send one of the young 'uns for help when attacked.)

She's actually standing at the front door during this.

> An interesting one; if the door's open, is one then standing in the DIn? I
> guess it works

But it's not a door to a hallway; it's a door from a room to the outside.

> She's standing in the doorway, right? I think {lojmItDaq} seems fine
> for that. Or take a cue from Power Klingon, and phrase it as
> {lojmItvo' Hatlh bej}.

Right. Going with {lojmIt}.

>
>
>>   jatlh 'IrneH Henry:
>>      <<ghoS *ghoSuS*![4]
>>
>> [4] I'm fairly certain that "tornado, twister, cyclone" has come up
>> this list before, but I couldn't find the conversation.
>
> Although I like *{ghoSuS} for the colloquialism "twister", what's wrong with just {SuS'a'} "strong wind"?  If a mere {SuS} was strong enough to kill the fool outside Quin'lat, how much stronger would a {SuS'a'} be?

> I've used jIrbogh SuS or jIrwI' before and jIrbogh jevwI' might work too.

> Unfortunately, {ghoSuS} can be interpreted as a command. I like
> {jIrbogh SuS}. If you want to evoke the colloquial term "twister",
> perhaps {jIrwI'} is enough.


I had {SuS'a'} at first, actually.
But then realized that the idea of gale ;-) force winds doesn't bring
across the message of air spinning in a cirlce and picking up houses.
I also didn't realize that "twister" was a colloquialism.

Oooh, I like {tIrwI'}.

>
> In fact, this might be a good place for {Henry 'IrneH} to yell out the proverb itself (Klingons being so fond of them).  I.e.
>
>   bImaw''a'?  Duvuv SuS DaneH'a'?
>   Are you crazy? Do you want the wind to respect you? (KGT 122)

That's a great idea.

>> wIjwI' be'nal ghaH me'nal Em'e'.
>
> Heh. Interesting that Em, of all people, has to be called {me'nal}.

She doesn't have to; I could switch it to {me'}.

>> Hopmo' Sor; juHchaj mach.
>
> {mach juHchaj}, qar'a'?

bIqar.

> Also, I think the semicolon indicates too strong a pause.

Really? I can switch it to a comma then.

>> neH wa' pa' tu'lu'.
>
> wa' pa' neH.

That's right; {neH} doesn't follow the rules...


>> Soj tummeHwIj,
>
> nuqjatlh? I can't parse that.

> It probably should be {Soj tujmoHwI'}.

HIvqa' veqlargh!

I did this on a legal pad and then typed it up.
My {'} looked a littlte too much like a {j}.

>> ngaSwI' ngop, loS quS, QongDaqmey je ngaS pa'vam.
>
> Do you mean ngop ngaSwI'?

I do.

>> ravDaq 'oH lojmIt'e'.
>
> I'd prefer 'oHtaH here. Actually, I'd prefer tu'lu', abandoning the
> pronoun-as-verb completely, but YMMV.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if {-taH} was right or not; as I'm usually only
writing about people and not things.
It's not like the door goes anywwhere else...


>> ben, QuptaHvIS me'nal Em; 'IH.
>
> I'm not a fan of ben alone this way. I'd go either 'opben or ben law'.
>

Got it.

>> Ha'DIbaH vISaH.>>
>
> Again, not having read the original I can't say for sure, but would Qorgh
> not be better here?

Yes it would; wasn't aware of that word.

>> jatlh me'nal Em.
>> <<nom! QemjIq 'el Dorothy!>>
>
> Is this QemjIq 'el Dorothy, or QemjIq 'el, Dorothy? SoSnI' wISop./SoSnI',
> wISop. Big difference :)

I'm not seeing the difffereance...

> <<Dorothy! QemjIqDaq, nom!>> (or {wutlhDaq}, whatever)

Ah, that's much better.

>> QongDaq bIngDaq So' Toto.
>
> Can So' be used intransitively like this?

> I would have said {So''egh}.

Ah, yes.

> Fun! Pretty straightforward, and now that I've gone to look at the original
> text I can see you've done some simplifying. But it works. yItaHmoH!

Well I was doing it just for fun.


>>> puH meQ jul.
>
> I'd suggest {meQpu'}.
>

Got it.

>>> not Hagh 'IrneH Henry.
>>> qaStaHvIS pem; QuplI'.
>
> I think you mean {vum} "work, toil" instead of {Qup} "be young".

Actually, this was another transcription error.
I was going for {Qap} and my "a" and "u" look exactly the same at times.


> There's a lot of the original text being left out of the translation.
> That could be appropriate, depending on the target audience. However,
> I'm very familiar with the original, and with the missing details,
> that target would not include me. Beyond a few grammar and vocabulary
> points, I'm afraid most of my suggestions would end up going further
> than you probably want.

I don't think I left much out until she's in the air; at which point
it all seemed rather boring.
I guess Toto falling out the trap door is exciting...

>If all you know is the movie, you might find a Klingon translation of the original story somewhat surprising.
>The movie leaves out a lot, even as it adds nuances which I think greatly improve the overall tale.

As there seems to be some interest in this project, I'm going to
slowly move forward.
That said, I'll be incorportaing elements from both the well-known
movie (as opposed to the lesser known ones) and the book "Wicked".

The slippers will not be ruby.

~'anan naHQun

-- 
~Michael Roney, Jr.
Professional Klingon Translator
webOS Developer

http://www.twitter.com/roneyii
http://www.google.com/s2/profiles/110546798564536163288