[Tlhingan-hol] IPA-expert question

[André Müller]

Phonetically it's possible to have something like [pʰɑwʔ] with the glottal
stop following the glide. Indeed, the glottal stop does come after
consonants like /n/ or /l/ in a few languages, sometimes in a slightly
reduced form (Danish is an example). The difference between analyzing <-aw>
and also <-ay> (and other similar combinations) as a diphthong rather than
a vowel plus a glide is rather phonemical. Phonetically they're almost
identical, in IPA the diphthong version would be written as [pʰɑu̯ʔ] and
[pʰɑu̯] respectively (that's also how diphthongs are written, strictly).

As for the original question: I don't think length plays a crucial role
here. If one wants to stress that glottalized syllables have shorter
vowels, one might do this by adding the shortness diacritic to those,
rather than the length sign to the others, for a word like <tI'> this would
then result in [tʰɪ̆ʔ], which would contrast with <tI> [tʰɪ] and <tIy>
[tʰɪj] or perhaps even [tʰiː] or [tʰiːj]. But it might suffice to
distinguish them as simply [tʰɪʔ], [tʰɪ] and [tʰɪj], which would be similar
to their phonemic counterparts: /tiʔ/, /ti/ and /tij/.

Does this help a little, Lieven?

Greetings,
- André

2012/11/27 Darin Arrick <darin.arrick at gmail.com>

> Isn't "paw" spoken as [pa͡u], with a diphthong, and "paw' " as [pa͡uʔ].
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Klingonteacher <levinius at gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> I do understand mostly how IPA works and how to fit it to klingon, but
>> few words leave questions open:
>>
>> 1. How do I mark the difference between {paw} and {paw'}. I'm not sure if
>> the glottal stop can be used like this: [paw] vs. [paw?] because we know
>> that words like these are pronounced shorter. If I mark the difference like
>> [pa:w], then I must theoretically add the [:] to every word, which doesn't
>> really make sense.
>>
>> 2. What about vowel-ending words?
>> is that okay: {tI} vs {tI'} = [tI:] vs. [tI?], or only [tI]... ?
>>
>> Lieven.
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol at stodi.**digitalkingdom.org<Tlhingan-hol at stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
>> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.**org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-**hol<http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Darin Arrick - darin.arrick at gmail.com - darin.arrick at uky.edu
> Graduate Student, MA in Linguistic Theory and Typology
> University of Kentucky - Department of English - Linguistics Program
> https://linguistics.as.uky.edu/users/dar224
> http://uky.academia.edu/DarinArrick
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol at stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20121128/e9e188c1/attachment.html>