[Tlhingan-hol] New Canon - King John Shakespeare

[Terrence Donnelly]

I seem to recall the examples {Hoch SuvwI'} "every soldier" vs. {SuvwI' Hoch} "the entire soldier".  If {bID} works by analogy, I'd expect {bID paH} to mean "half of the skirts."

I go back to the old conception of the N1-N2 construction meaning "of the universal set of N2, the N1 portion of it/them".  So, {Hoch SuvwI'}, "of the universal set of soldiers, all of them", {bID paH} "of the universal set of skirts, half of them".

-- ter'eS

--- On Wed, 3/21/12, lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com> wrote:

From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] New Canon - King John Shakespeare
To: "tlhIngan-Hol" <tlhingan-hol at kli.org>
Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2012, 3:16 PM

There have been a lot of confident pronouncements about how to interpret when you should use {bID} before or after a noun without much in the way of explanation citing any kind of canon or rule from Okrand.
We know that of whole numbers {cha' paH} would be "two gowns", while {paH cha'} would be "gown #2" (another way of saying "the second gown"). So, might {bID paH} refer to half of a gown while {paH bID} might refer to the gown's half? (As in gown #0.5)
That second one would be far-fetched, perhaps, but it would be more meaningful with plurals:
bID paHmey - Half of the gowns

paHmey bID - The half-gowns
I don't feel very solid here, and I don't quite understand why others seem to be more confident. I'm suspecting that Okrand is just sloppy in how he's used {bID} and he hasn't explained what it's supposed to mean, perhaps because he hasn't decided what it is supposed to mean.

pItlhlojmIt tI'wI'nuv




On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Robyn Stewart wrote:
At 11:23 '?????' 3/21/2012, De'vID jonpIn wrote:
Voragh:
> We have two new examples from "TalkNow! Klingon":
>
>  yopwaH bID   shorts (pants)
>  paH bID           skirt

Mini-skirt: {paHHom bID} or {paH bIDHom} (or neither)?

 paH bID tIqHa'. qIvDu' 'angbogh paH bID. Sa'Hut qatchu'be'bogh paH bID. nISbe'bogh paH bID vItuQlaHtaH Do qam DujwIj vIlIghtaHvIS.

- Qov 

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