[Tlhingan-hol] chIjwI' tIQ bom: 'ay' jav

[Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh]

wa' qelI'qam QIn 'oHlaw'...

ghItlhpu' Qov, jatlh:
> Oddly the grammar seems pretty straightforward here, but I had little
> idea what was going on before checking the English.

The sense of the English is at times so odd or obscure that I'm not even
100% sure if how I'm interpreting the English is the same as someone else
might be; I guess that uncertainty must be flowing through to the Klingon.
I'll keep working on it.

jImughpu', jIjatlh:
> >< HIja', HIja', qaqoy', yIjatlh!

mujang Qov, jatlh:
> Yes, tell me, I beg you, speak!
> [Didn't know if it was yes or tell me, so I split the difference :-) ]

Heh, fair enough. :) I did notice that, and it turns out that in the
context of the previous verse ("This man hath penance done / And penance
more will do.") it makes sense to interpret it as "yes" as well...

jIH:
> < joH toy'bogh toy'wI''a' rur 'oH,

Qov:
> It's like a master served by a slave,
> [or a slave serving a master, but doesn't seem to matter]
> {Ahh, omitting the "still as" concept leaves this phrase completely
> unrelated to the rest. I was left with no way to know HOW the ocean
> resembled a slave/master setup.}

yajchu'. jIbuDba'pu'. vIchoH:

vIHbe', torbogh toy'wI''a' rur;
bIQ'a'Daq Dach bey tIn.

jIH:
> bIQ'a'Daq Dach bey tIn;

Qov:
> There's a great howl missing from the ocean.
> [There's no roar left in the ocean?]

That's how I understand it - the ocean has dropped back to dead calm,
with no noise or waves, and yet the ship continues to move onwards.

jIH:
> He qar Sovbe'chugh 'oH, Dev maS
> gheghchugh pagh Habchugh He.

Qov:
> If it doesn't know the right way, the moon guides it, be the way
> rough or smooth. [Okay, perfect grammatical sense, but I'm suspense
> to read the English to see if it makes any more sense].
> {I still don't know who is the he and she of this verse: mariner,
> ship, or sea.}

Yeah, I'm happy to admit that in this and the next verse Coleridge's
pronoun issues caused me some issues.

jIH:
> yIleghchoH! > jatlh, < bejtaHvIS, batlh
> bIQ'a''e' bejtaH je. >

Qov:
> {This is interpretable in English only because the poet sets up the
> moon as female and the ocean as male, and even then only barely.}

Hm. loS mu'tlheghmey vInIDqa':

He qar Sovbe'chugh 'oH, Dev maS
gheghchugh He pagh Habchugh.
< yIleghchoH! > jatlh, < maS bejtaH, batlh
bIQ'a' bej je maS Dugh. >

Actually, I quite like that. Exchanging "gracious" for Dugh "vigilant"
seems much more Klingon.

jIH:
> (ghogh cha'DIch)
> < tlhopDaq muD'e' pe'lu'pu'qu',

Qov:
> The air has been completely cut out from in front of it. [Holy cow,
> it's being pulled forward by a Maxwell's Demon vacuum. This is almost
> as cool as the arm biting, and almost certain to be a
> misunderstanding on my part.]

bIlughchu'! I seem to recall hearing this is how warp drive is supposed
to work, too. Coleridge's really channelling something here. :)

jIH:
> yIpum, loDnal, Dupepjaj chal!

Hell. This should have been loDnI' "brother", not loDnal "husband". Not
that it matters, I guess - having two spirit voices be husband and wife
shouldn't be any different from having them be brothers, especially
since I haven't used "brother" in the earlier verse either.

Qov:
> Fall down man, may the sky raise you. [Hee hee, this is why you came
> to accept pep where you formerly required pepmoH, just as you
> persuaded me to use pepmoH]

:P Really, I think you might have been right all along! I realised that
"raise" probably would take an object, because the intransitive sense
would likely have been "rise" instead and Sal already serves for that.

> {Ah, I guess you mean puv, not pum, and I bet someone already caught
> this.}

ghobe'; tu'wI' wa'DIch SoH. vIchoH. I always get those two mixed up...

jIH:
> pagh tugh mapaSchoHqu',

Qov:
> Or soon we will become late. [Ooh, isn't this "or" a "surrender or
> die" construction in English, suggesting a need for Dupepbe'chugh
> chal vaj tugh mapaSchoHqu' (yeah I know that won't fit, but is this
> use of pagh allowed?)]

Good question. I think you're right. I'm really using pagh here to mean
"otherwise", not "or".

How about:

yIpuv, loDnal! DupepchoH chal
pagh tugh mapaSchoHqu'.

jIH:
> 'ej vemchoHDI' vulbogh chIjwI',

Qov:
> And when the unconscious navigator awakes. [Hey, my story has an
> unconscious navigator too!]

Hee, the parallels mount!

jIH:
> qaS ram, tam ram, chalDaq jen maS,

Qov:
> {Without a suffix it's hard to distinguish between qaSlI' and qaSchoH
> senses}

True. Might SaH work? (I want to preserve the {ram tam ram} sequence if
I can.)

jIH:
> nItebHa' Qam Hegh ghot.

Qov:
> Together the people of death stood. [not quite "dead people"]

I meant this more like "Death's people" (with or without capital-D, tho'
I prefer it with); I know it's not quite the same but I kind of liked
the sentiment and the bit of ambiguity.

jIH:
> lom qach pInHey lutu':

Qov:
> {The stories seem to have diverged. Is there an archaic meaning of
> fitter that corresponds to pIn? My read on this is that it means
> that they are more fit for a charnel house than for the deck of a
> ship, not anything to do with bosses.

Ahh, jIyajchu'. "fitter" vIyajHa'pu'; DIp 'oH 'e' vIHar (luch jomwI',
luch loHwI' ghap). choH Dachupbogh vIlaj.

jIH:
> Heghpu'DI' chaH, mu'IghmoH bIH,

Qov:
> [yeah, I remember that bit, Coleridge. What is this, a show on the
> discovery channel?]

"And we'll be back to see what happens to the Ancient Mariner after
these short messages!"

jIH:
> bIQ'a' vIleghchoHqa';

Qov:
> [ha! you did what I' was caught doing. You can't have a -qa' and a
> -choH on the same verb, no matter how much you mean it!]

bIlughchu'! reH latlh qabDaq qul tuj law' Hoch tuj puS.

jIH:
> 'ej Dat vIbejtaH, 'ach taQbogh
> wanI' lunge'lu'ta' -

Qov:
> And I watch it everywhere, but the strange events are taken away.
> {I'd understand this better if it were jIbejtaH; I wouldn't have to
> wonder what it was I was watching.

luq. vIchoH.

> Oh, I see now. I didn't get at all the relationship between the
> strange events and the looking. Coleridge has you beat here with the
> repetition of saw/seen.

Yep, that's fair enough. I'll see if I can rework it: 

'ej DaH jI'IghHa'choH; SuDbogh
bIQ'a' vIbejqa'laH;
jInejchoHtaH, 'ach latlh taQbogh
wanI' vISambe'taH.

Or, if the nej-Sam pair doesn't do it for you, what do you think of:

jIleghqa'taH, 'ach latlh taQbogh

wanI' vIleghbe'taH.


jIH:
> jIbejtaHvIS yItwI' vIrur:
> Hajqu'taHbogh jaHlI';
> 'ej nach tlhe'qa'moHtaHQo' ghaH,
> wa'logh tlhe'pu'qu'DI';
> ghaH 'emDaq tlha'taH veqlargh mIgh
> 'e' Sovbejmo' yItwI'.

Qov:
> {You nailed that stanza.}

qatlho'.

jIH:
> bIQ'a' yu'egh QIb je So'be',

Qov:
> It doesn't hide the shadows or the ocean's waves. [Huh?]

Since we don't have a verb for "to cover", I tend to use So' as a
substitute, and I guess I overreached here. Let me try again:

yu'eghDaq QIbDaq je ghoSbe',
bIQDaq Dachlaw' SuS He.

(bIQ*Daq*, not bIQvo'. A blatant Englishism, that -vo' was.)

jIH:
> rur poH ghun ngem SuS'a';

Qov:
> Like a summer forest windstorm
> {I was trying to decide whether a poH ghun was spring or summer.}

>From the 'u' invitation we have poH tuj bI'reS "summer solstice" so
I've taken to using poH tuj for summer, poH bIr for winter, and poH
ghun for spring; depends where you are, I guess! (Here summer is
truly tuj.)

jIH:
> toH! pay' jIbelchoH! pa' nargh'a'
> wovmoHwI' qach yorna'?
> HuD 'oHbej'a'? chIrgh 'oHbej'a'?
> yoSwIj vIleghlaH'a'?

Qov:

> {Interesting. The lack of the definite article in Klingon makes it
> impossible to realize that he's finding himself at home until the
> yoSwIj, and the lack of repetition makes it less clear overall}.

I had hoped the -na' would emphasise that this was no longer the
apparitions and hallucinations, but the real thing, which would imply
that he was home. This is the same wovmoHwI', HuD and chIrgh that were
referred to right back in 'ay' wa', so the repetition's there, though
very separated.

jIH:
> pagh jIH HIQongmoHta'. [1]

Qov:
> Or make me have slept again. [Yeah, it's really hard to interpret. I
> ignored it on first pass, and then when the footnote forced me to
> look at it. I don't think it's a command you could give to anyone
> other than a being who had control over time and space.]
> {I don't get the "let me sleep away" from it at all. I would think
> you would need -taH, not -ta' for that meaning.}

That's fair. Is this better?

bIQ Duj vergh DIn wIvegh; jISaQ,
'ej Qun vIqoy'qu'choH:
QunwI', qatlhob, jIvembe'chugh
vaj jIH HIQongqa'moH.

jIH:
> 'ej maS QIbHey vIlegh. [2]

Qov:
> And I could see the shadow of the moon.
> {I think by shadow he means reflection}

Would you get that from SIla' maSHey vIlegh?

jIH:
> vIHbe'bogh SuS lurgh permeH noch

Qov:
> For the compass to specify the unchanging wind direction

This was probably a little overcomplicated, but SuS lurgh permeH noch
is supposed to be a -meH clause modifying a noun: "sensor to specify
wind direction" ~ "weathercock".

jIH:
> puH rI'wI' rur chaH QamtaHvIS,

Qov:
> Standing there, they were like [smoke signals? cellphone towers?
> telegraph poles? I got nothing],

Er, yes. :) They stood like tall things that signal the land. What
those things are really doesn't matter much. Do you think I've been
too vague?

jIH:
> jatlhlaw' nugh jeSQo'wI'!

Qov:
> A nun seemed to speak.
> [you mentioned that you wanted to replace this with a religious
> interpretation of hermit]

In part VII my reason becomes clearer, and I hadn't fully realised it
until then.

jIH:
> chuSqu' ngemDaq Qun bommeyDaj
> Qoyqu'moHbogh bomDI'.

Qov:
> It's still fricking amazing that you can make Klingon do this.

choquvmoH. It's frustrating that in parts it still seems to need the
original beside it, because I'm really trying to get it beyond that
point and to the point where it stands on its own as a good example of
how rich Klingon can be. But I guess it's the curse of agglutinative
languages that a sentence of just six words, like this one, still has
so many ideas that it gets hard to parse...

> I think the popularity of translation over original works is, however,
> because it really helps to have the English there to understand where
> complex Klingon is trying to go.

True, though another reason is that not everyone is a natural story-
teller. I've long since realised I suck at telling engaging original
fiction and translation's my only outlet for longer bits of Klingon
prose, hence my massive respect for nuq bop bom - I could never do that
scale of writing.

Oh well. jaS po' Hoch.

QeS 'utlh