[Tlhingan-hol] Eurotalk - New Words - Food

[Robyn Stewart]

I read this reply before reading the author's name and assumed it was 
by lojmIt tI'wI' nuv, because of its conservatism, but despite my 
tendency to be a little liberal with the language in my stories, I 
agree with QeS.

nIm wIb ngogh is a valid description of milk which has undergone 
various processes to achieve some degree of solidity and 
preservation.  tIr ngogh describes grain which has been ground and 
made into a loaf, probably through mixing with water, fat, and 
leavening agent. Describe further modifications to either in a way 
that people can understand, and you have something people can 
understand. Describe them in a way that is ambiguous or unclear and 
you have something people cannot understand.

I'll bet if we poll even just the native English speakers on this 
list we won't get agreement on what cheesebread is, so you'd better 
descrbe well. There will never be THE WORD for anything that isn't 
Klingon to begin with.

It's like asking an English speaker for words distinguishing among 
different kinds of fermented fish preserves: you just get English 
corruptions of lutefisk, prahok, hakarl and surstromming.  Or just a 
look of horror and a gagging sound.

- Qov

At 07:08 27/12/2011, Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh wrote:

>jatlhpu' 'anan naHQun:
> > bread - tIr ngogh
> > cheese - nIm wIb ngogh
>
>jang De'vID, jatlh:
> > Do people agree that {nIm wIb} is the word for "cheese" (the substance
> > or ingredient) and that {nIm wIb ngogh} refers to a physical block or
> > lump of cheese?
>
>Very hesitantly.
>
>But tangentially, this "the word for" thing seems to be becoming common;
>it bemuses me a little. To me, what Eurotalk seems to be doing is to say:
>"Look, Klingon really *lacks* all these words. But if some Klingon speaker
>were to come to Earth and see these Earth things, this is how he might
>*describe* it to his friends when he got home." So I can see something
>like, "Those Terrans are crazy! They eat this weird food called "cheese",
>and what it is is {nIm wIb ngogh}."
>
>But for my part, the fact that Eurotalk seems to be implying all this
>makes me shy away from the thought that {nIm wIb} is now "the word for
>cheese". It's just how some Klingon chose to explain what cheese is. And
>that gives us some good canonical options, but I don't think we should
>feel constrained by those. If someone wanted to talk about {nIm QaD} or
>{nIm wIb QaDlu'pu'bogh} or {nIm roghmoHlu'pu'bogh} instead, and it gets
>the point across, great. (And to me {nIm wIb} could just as well refer
>to yoghurt or sour cream. Which is why I'm hesitant about agreeing that
>{nIm wIb} is even *a* phrase for cheese, never mind *the* phrase.)
>
>taH:
> > What about melted cheese? (There are like a billion kinds of cheese
> > with different names here in Switzerland where I'm living.)
>
>SoHvaD Qapbe''a' {tet} "melt"?
>
> > "cheesebread" leghDI' tlhIngan, chay' pong?
>
>Until right now I didn't even know what to call it in English. (The only
>time I've ever eaten anything like what you describe was in Georgia, so
>I only knew the Georgian name for it, which is "khachapuri".)
>
>QeS 'utlh
>
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