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<p class="owaPara">Excellent information. I'll take all of advice in stride and start working on a revised draft, which I'll post here sometime in the weeks ahead.</p>
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<p class="owaPara">Thanks,</p>
<p class="owaPara">Brian Coté</p>
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<p class="owaPara">Thank you for your critique.<br>
<br>
I have a quick question for you though. With <<bomvam'e'>> I was intending<br>
to mark the head noun of the relative clause. Did I do this incorrectly? If<br>
I had written <<qen bomvam'e' 'IH qonbogh John Lennon vImugh>>, would that<br>
be correct? <br>
<br>
No, but <qen bomvam 'IH'e' qonbogh John Lennon vImugh> would have been,<br>
although some people might misinterpret it as a recent composition by JL<br>
rather than a recent translation.<br>
<br>
Further would <<qen bomvam'e' 'IH tera' DIS wa'SaD Hutvatlh SochmaH wa'<br>
qonbogh John Lennon vImugh>> be correct, even though it seems unnecessarily<br>
unwieldy?<br>
<br>
No, because the type 5 suffix is in the wrong place, and a time stamp in<br>
Klingon doesn't get to go in the middle of the sentence. It's not<br>
participating there. You want to say:<br>
<br>
tera' DIS wa'SaD Hutvatlh SochmaH wa' bomvam 'IH qon John Lennon. qen<br>
vImugh.<br>
<br>
Also, I did know about the pronoun 'e', but I see know that I didn't<br>
understand how generally it could be applied. I was thinking it was pretty<br>
much limited to verbs of thinking or observation, but it can be used with<br>
pretty much any verb in the right context, right?<br>
<br>
I hesitate to give you blanket permission, because you will surely find a<br>
way to use it that we don't like, but the only hard exception is the verb<br>
neH, which does not require it.<br>
<br>
Finally, I'm planning on actually singing this once I have a translation<br>
that is satisfying word-wise and grammar-wise. This is why the translation<br>
seems so loose. I've kept the same rhythm and rhyme scheme, both of which<br>
introduce their own problems beyond my tenuous grasp of Klingon grammar. <br>
<br>
Get someone who does music to tell you if it scans. I can count poetry<br>
syllable beats on my fingers, but with songs I don't really get how the<br>
music takes part. Also maybe you can decrease your use of vaj as a<br>
makeweight. It has a meaning like "thus" which kept confusing me.<br>
<br>
- Qov<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello everyone. qen 'IH bomvam'e' DIS 1971 qonbogh jan lennon vImugh. <br>
<br>
I know what you're trying to say, but the construction you are trying for in<br>
this sentence, is not working. <br>
<br>
You want "I recently translated this beautiful song which John Lennon wrote<br>
in 1971." <br>
<br>
Remember that bomvam 'IH is "this beautiful song" and 'IH bomvam is "this<br>
song is beautiful."<br>
<br>
You can't build a noun1 noun2 construction with a type-5 on the first noun,<br>
so I have to interpret the first noun as independent, not part of the<br>
subject or object. So I get ...<br>
<br>
Recently this very song is beautiful I translate John Lennon who composed<br>
the year 1971.<br>
<br>
or<br>
<br>
Recently this very song is beautiful I translate the year 1971 which John<br>
Lennon composed.<br>
<br>
Plus a couple of style notes: <br>
<br>
*we don't usually transliterate proper nouns: just leave it as John Lennon.<br>
* DIS 1971 looks really weird to me. I'm pretty sure all the examples are as<br>
[tera'] DIS wa'SaD Hutvatlh SochmaH wa'.<br>
<br>
<<Imagine>> 'oH, 'ach <<yIqel>> vIpong. <br>
<br>
I like that choice very much.<br>
<br>
lughchugh pab jItu'meH naDev vIlan. botIv 'e' vItul je.<br>
<br>
You want to say "I put it here to find if the grammar is correct, but the<br>
kind of "if" that means "whether" isn't -chugh.<br>
<br>
How about lugh pab 'e' vI'olmeH naDev vIlan. <br>
<br>
Now the song.<br>
<br>
Imagine there's no heaven<br>
it's easy if you try<br>
no hell below us<br>
above us only sky<br>
imagine all the people<br>
living for today<br>
<br>
yIqel. Suto'vo'qor Dun<br>
tu'lu'be'. ngeD. yInID.<br>
qo' bIngDaq ghe'tor<br>
botu'laHbe'. yIchID.<br>
yIqel. vaj neHchugh Hoch,<br>
wa'leS yInchoHlaH.<br>
<br>
It's not a close translation, but it's not ungrammatical. I don't know if<br>
you haven't used 'e' because it doesn't scan, or because you don't know how<br>
to use it. You should learn about it. The word 'e' not the affix -'e'.<br>
<br>
Imagine there's no countries<br>
it isn't hard to do<br>
nothing to live or die for<br>
and no religion too<br>
imagine all the people<br>
living life in peace<br>
<br>
yIqel. pagh Sep, pagh qo' je.<br>
<br>
Not a sentence.<br>
<br>
lIQatlhbe'. <br>
<br>
Qatlh is not a verb that tlhIH can easily be the object of, and it certainly<br>
doesn't make sense here. Also as you are consistently addressing 2nd person<br>
plural now, earlier imperatives with no object should be with pe-. peqel.<br>
<br>
DaH Salay'.<br>
vaj yIntaHmeH qoj HeghmeH<br>
pagh meq'e' naDlu'bogh.<br>
yIqel. vaj neHchugh Hoch,<br>
roj 'oH ngoQmaj'e'.<br>
<br>
You, you may say I'm a dreamer<br>
but I'm not the only one<br>
I hope someday you'll join us<br>
And the world will be as one.<br>
<br>
rut, rut jInajtaH. Dajatlhjaj.<br>
<br>
-jaj translates may only in the sense of "O may I finally win the lottery."<br>
The idea you are translating there wants chaq.<br>
<br>
'a jImobtaHbe'. ghomuv.<br>
chaq 'opleS latlh boqIHlaH,<br>
tagha' tay'choHbejmo' Hoch.<br>
<br>
Imagine no possessions<br>
I wonder if you can<br>
No need for greed or hunger<br>
A brotherhood of man<br>
Imagine all the people<br>
Sharing all the world <br>
<br>
yIqel. pay' pagh wIghajchugh,<br>
DaHar'a'? <br>
rut jISIv.<br>
<br>
This is: "If we suddenly have nothing, do you believe it? Sometimes I<br>
wonder."<br>
<br>
possibly "If we suddenly had nothing would you believe it? Sometimes I<br>
wonder."<br>
<br>
but it's not "I wonder if you can." <br>
<br>
How about: pagh wIghaj 'e' DaHarlaH 'e' vISIv. <br>
<br>
wa' nugh chenmoH Hoch ghotpu'.<br>
<br>
moj is more appropriate here, or with some rewording, chen.<br>
<br>
qurbe' ghungbe' 'ej. <br>
<br>
qur and ghung are verbs, so the connecting conjunction goes between them.<br>
<br>
nIv.<br>
yIqel. vaj neHchugh Hoch,<br>
nItebHa' yInlaH.<br>
<br>
I am not a music person so I can't answer to whether the verse scans, but I<br>
assume that is your reason for diverging from the original wording. Remember<br>
that in English if you say "Consider" the person is expecting the thing to<br>
consider to follow, but in Klingon the thing to consider would normally<br>
precede, so the song may be choppier than you realize.<br>
<br>
You might learn more if you attempted a closer translation of the words,<br>
without worrying about syllable count or rhyme. I do understand the urge to<br>
render something you like in your native language into Klingon.<br>
<br>
- Qov<br>
<br>
<br>
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