[Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: Huq

[mayql qunenoS]

SuStel voragh je, thank you for taking the time to reply.

jIH :
> chaHvaD malja' wIHuqlaHmeH Holchaj wIghojnISta'.
SuStel :
> I'm not entirely certain about the {-ta'} on {wIghojnIS}.
> If I say it as just {wIghojnIS} it seems to be exactly right.

I wondered about that as well. While I was trying to write this
sentence, my intention was to express the meaning that "in order to be
able to transact business, we needed (in the past) to learn their
language". I thought of omitting an aspect prefix on the {wIghojnIS},
but then I wondered if the meaning that something happened in the past
would still be expressed.

jIH :
> joghDaq Da'el net tuch ; meqmo' chaHvaD malja' boHuqlaHbe'. DaH naDevvo' yIDoH !
SuStel :
> Voragh pointed out that you don't need {-Daq} on {jogh}
> I'd say {DaH yImej} "now leave!" instead of {DaH naDevvo' yIDoH}, but that's just a matter
> of style.

I am glad to learn the proper use of {'el} ; with regards to the {DaH
naDevvo' yIDoH}, I wondered whether it would be correct or not, to
write it this way. I went ahead and wrote it like this, because I
decided to treat the {DoH}, as I would treat {jaH} and {ghoS}. I'm
happy to see that the {DaH naDevvo' yIDoH}, is a valid construction.

jIH :
> taghpa' noH, jIlma'vaD maHuqlaH ; DaH Qobqu'..
SuStel :
> Using {-qu'} remains correct, but {tlhoy} is so much nicer.

yes indeed. I have realized that a lot depends on the right word
appearing in one's mind at the right time. When you are a beginner,
because you lack a complete picture of the entire klingon vocabulary,
with which you haven't familiarized yourself with, you tend to forget
many wonderful words, which are able to beautifully express your
desired meaning. So, I will keep {tlhoy} in mind, as an alternative
for {-qu'}.

jIH :
> chetojtaHchugh, vaj latlh wIv wIghajbe'mo' cheraD 'ej HuqmeH chaw'lij
wIghang Do'Ha' 'e' DaqaSmoH.
SuStel :
> Can one {ghaj} a {wIv}? That's an English idiom; I'm not sure if it works in
> Klingon. Can one {ghang} "end prematurely (an event)" a {chaw'}?

I wondered about these too, while I was writing this sentence.. I
believe that a classic beginner difficulty in klingon, is knowing what
expressions work in klingon as they work in english. I guess it is a
difficulty, which one can overcome only by experience, and through
trial and error.

jIH :
> jaj 'oH DaHjaj'e' Heghpu' vavwI' 'ej DaSovbej ! DaHjaj malja' DaHuq
DaneH 'e' DangIl'a'. yavlI'Daq qaHoH ; yavvetlhDaq Dagho' ! pa' qaHoH
SuStel :
> That first sentence doesn't make sense to me. I assume it's the ANNIVERSARY
> of the day your father died?

While I was writing this sentence yesterday, I wanted to express that
"my father died today" ; but now that I read this sentence again, I
realized that indeed it is unspecified whether my father actually died
today, or that it is the anniversary of my father's death. Perhaps I
should have written something like "an hour ago my father died".

SuStel :
> I'm not happy with {yavlI'Daq} (anyway it should have {-lIj}, not {-lI'})

oh yes, you're so right ! I'm not happy about it either ! Believe me
when I say, that yesterday I was stuck on that part of the sentence
for nearly 45 minutes.. I was writing and deleting it, again and again
and I couldn't find a way to say properly the "I will kill you were
you stand". Finally I developed a headache and I wrote the {yavlI'Daq
qaHoH ; yavvetlhDaq Dagho' ! pa' qaHoH}.

Your suggestions of course are wonderful ! They are perfect ! And they
showed me how one can say the "I will kill you were you stand".
Actually there is a scene in ds9, where gowron says the "I would kill
you where you stand" to worf.

SuStel voragh je, thank you very much for replying and correcting me !

mayqel mIv Hurgh qunnoq
DaH DIHIvnIS DaH DIHIvlaHtaHvIS

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 8:38 PM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 3/22/2016 1:11 PM, mayql qunenoS wrote:
>>
>> chaHvaD malja' wIHuqlaHmeH Holchaj wIghojnISta'.
>> we needed to learn their language in order to be able to transact
>> business with them.
>
>
> I'm not entirely certain about the {-ta'} on {wIghojnIS}. If I say it as
> just {wIghojnIS} it seems to be exactly right. You're probably not talking
> about needing to learn and then completing needing to learn; you're probably
> talking about being in the state of needing to learn. That would not take a
> {-ta'}.
>
> Even if it did, I doubt the completion would have been intentionally arrived
> at. {-pu'} would be better. But I still don't think the suffix is right
> here.
>
>> joghDaq Da'el net tuch ; meqmo' chaHvaD malja' boHuqlaHbe'. DaH naDevvo'
>> yIDoH !
>> one forbids that you enter this quadrant ; because of this reason you
>> aren't able to transact business with them. now back off from here !
>
>
> Voragh pointed out that you don't need {-Daq} on {jogh} because the object
> of {'el} includes a locative sense. However it's also not wrong to include
> the {-Daq}, just redundant. It's kind of like say "I entered into the room"
> in English. It's not wrong, but "I entered the room" is all you need; the
> "into" is redundant.
>
> Notice that you said {joghDaq Da'el} instead of {joghvamDaq Da'el} or
> {joghvam Da'el} "you enter this quadrant."
>
> The {meq} seems odd to me. "You are forbidden from entering this quadrant.
> Because of the reason, you cannot do business with them." Adding a {-vam} to
> {meq} ties the {meq} together with the previous sentence (which you did in
> your English translation).
>
> I'd say {DaH yImej} "now leave!" instead of {DaH naDevvo' yIDoH}, but that's
> just a matter of style.
>
>> taghpa' noH, jIlma'vaD maHuqlaH ; DaH Qobqu'..
>> before the war started we were able to transact with our neighbours ;
>> now it is too dangerous.
>
>
> Consider also the adverbial {tlhoy} "overly, to an excessive degree." {tlhoy
> Qob} "it is too dangerous."
>
> For years {-qu'} was the only way we could express this, but it also acts as
> emphasis: {DaH Qobqu'} "now it is DANGEROUS (as opposed to being something
> else)."
>
> Using {-qu'} remains correct, but {tlhoy} is so much nicer.
>
>> chetojtaHchugh, vaj latlh wIv wIghajbe'mo' cheraD 'ej HuqmeH chaw'lij
>> wIghang Do'Ha' 'e' DaqaSmoH.
>> if you continue deceiving us, then because we won't have any other
>> choice you will force us and unfortunately you will cause us to end
>> prematurely your transaction licence.
>
>
> Can one {ghaj} a {wIv}? That's an English idiom; I'm not sure if it works in
> Klingon. Can one {ghang} "end prematurely (an event)" a {chaw'}?
>
> Consider:
>
>    jaS mawIvlaHbe'mo'
>    because we cannot choose differently
>
>    HuqmeH chaw'lIj wInge'
>    we take away your transaction license
>
>> jaj 'oH DaHjaj'e' Heghpu' vavwI' 'ej DaSovbej ! DaHjaj malja' DaHuq
>> DaneH 'e' DangIl'a'. yavlI'Daq qaHoH ; yavvetlhDaq Dagho' ! pa' qaHoH
>> !
>> today is the day my father died and you definitely know it ! you dare
>> want to transact business today ? I will kill you were you stand !
>
>
> That first sentence doesn't make sense to me. I assume it's the ANNIVERSARY
> of the day your father died? I'm having trouble coming up with ways to
> express an anniversary. Maybe something like this:
>
>    vavwI' Hegh jaj 'oH DaHjaj'e'
>    today is the day of my father's death
>
>    vagh ben jajvam Heghpu' vavwI'
>    on this day five years ago my father died
>
> I feel like neither of these quite gets it right.
>
> I wouldn't bother with the {-'a'}. You're not really asking a question; in
> English you're intoning a statement as a question as a rhetorical device.
> You're not asking for a yes or no answer. {DaHjaj malja' DaHuq DaneH 'e'
> DangIl!}
>
> I'm not happy with {yavlI'Daq} (anyway it should have {-lIj}, not {-lI'}),
> and your alternative is no better. You might stray from the English with
> {DaqlIjDaq SoHtaHvIS qaHoH}, or {pa' SoHtaHvIS qaHoH}, or even just {pa'
> qaHoH}. Or you might be less literal and say {SIbI' qaHoH}.
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
>
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