[Tlhingan-hol] A tribute to the dark lord

Sat Mar 19 11:40:06 PDT 2016

[noun phrase] [verb of quality] law’ [noun phrase] [verb of quality] puS.

A relative clause is a noun phrase. Apparently a locative can be included as a noun phrase, though I wince a little. It’s one of those things that makes total sense intuitively, but doesn’t fit those nice, tidy grammatical rules, so I just let go and accept it. Besides, I have such well-developed wincing muscles…

As for the {-vIS} Okrand obviously violated a rule he gave us in TKD. Either he forgot, messed up, the actor messed up, or maybe there’s something highly unusual here, like instead of “while” it referred to something in Klingon that doesn’t exist in English. Like instead of “during the continuous action of A” it means something like “during the instant of A”. The instant of dying on your feet is better than the instant of living on your knees.

But that’s just a fabrication to cover a violation of a grammatical rule.

lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh
Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably

> On Mar 19, 2016, at 11:32 AM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> The text in the facing page doesn't discuss that?
> I didn't look it up from the book.
> 
>> While the two things being compared have to be nouns
>> there's no reason that they can't have context.
> so, the question would be what qualifies as context..
> 
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn at flyingstart.ca> wrote:
>> The missing -taH is a grammatical irregularity. The text in the facing page doesn't discuss that?
>> 
>> While the two things being compared have to be nouns, there's no reason that they can't have context. I wouldn't object to:
>> 
>> telmeyDaq wovwI'mey qaq law' chorDaq wovwI'mey qaq puS
>> 
>> but I imagine SuStel will, or maybe he'll make an exception because it's normal for there to be no verb in such sentences.
>> 
>> I'm also fine with naH pe'meH 'aqnaw lI' law' nuv HoHmeH 'aqnaw lI' puS.
>> 
>> - Qov
>> 
>>> On Mar 19, 2016, at 3:58, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just as I was ready to move on, my sensors picked up the following
>>> canon sentence :
>>> 
>>> QamvIS Hegh qaq law' torvIS yIn qaq puS.
>>> 
>>> I knew of the existence of this sentence for quite some time, but I
>>> never actually concerned myself with it, because until now I used to
>>> shy away from the use of the ..law' ..puS construction. However, in
>>> light of our recent reference to this construction, I made the mistake
>>> of trying to analyze this sentence, and I'm saying mistake, because
>>> this analysis messed me up.
>>> 
>>> First of all, I just noticed that in this phrase, the {-vIS} isn't
>>> preceded by {-taH}. Can someone tell me why this is happening ? I
>>> thought that in no case can one have the {-vIS}, without the {-taH}
>>> preceding..
>>> 
>>> Moving on.. I thought that apart from the simplest form of ..law'
>>> ..puS, one could not combine this construction with anything else. I
>>> thought that the only way one could use the klingon comparative
>>> construction is A compared to B and that's it..
>>> 
>>> But in this canon example, we don't just have death is preferable to
>>> life ; we have instead, A while something is happening is this/that
>>> compared to B while something else is happening. So, I will ask.. Is
>>> there some additional grammar with regards to the ..law' ..puS
>>> construction, I'm obviously missing ?
>>> 
>>> mayqel mIv Hurgh qunnoq
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 6:02 PM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv:
>>>>> The Klingon comparative construction is very limited in its capacity to combine
>>>>> with more complex grammar. Either use it to compare things in a simple comparison
>>>>> sentence, or find some other way to say what you want.
>>>> 
>>>> ok, thanks !
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 4:59 PM, lojmIttI'wI'nuv
>>>> <lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The Klingon comparative construction is very limited in its capacity to
>>>>> combine with more complex grammar. Either use it to compare things in a
>>>>> simple comparison sentence, or find some other way to say what you want.
>>>>> Here are suggestions:
>>>>> 
>>>>> vay’ ghung law’ SoH ghung. nuvvam DawIvchugh vaj …
>>>>> 
>>>>> or
>>>>> 
>>>>> ghungchu’wI’ yIwIv.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, I probably would have taken on the entire project differently:
>>>>> 
>>>>> wa’ ghojwI’ pup poQchu' Hoch pIn’a’.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ghojchu’ta’DI’, tob’eghnIS ghojwI’vetlh. pIn’a’Daj Qaw’nIS.
>>>>> 
>>>>> pIn DamojmeH pIn’a’lI’ DaQaw’ta’. pIn’a’ DamojmeH, ghojwI’ pup DaSuqnIS.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hegh Hoch yInwI’pu’. Qaw’lu’ Hoch pIn’a’pu’.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ‘ach yIntaHvIS pIn’a’, Hoch ra’chu’. yInlI’ ratlhwI’pu’ ‘ej toy’nISlI'.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’m reminded of the scene from Sherlock when someone tells Moriarti that
>>>>> people are dying, and he replies:
>>>>> 
>>>>> “That’s what people DO!"
>>>>> 
>>>>> pItlh
>>>>> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 17, 2016, at 6:49 AM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> while I was writing the sentences above, I wondered whether instead of this
>>>>> :
>>>>> 
>>>>> vay' ghung law' SoH ghung puS ; DawIvchugh vaj DuSopchu'bej
>>>>> someone is hungrier than you ; if you choose him then whatever..
>>>>> 
>>>>> I could write this :
>>>>> 
>>>>> vay''e' ghungbogh law' SoH ghung puS DawIvchugh vaj DuSopchu'bej
>>>>> if you choose someone who is hungrier than you, then whatever..
>>>>> 
>>>>> mayqel mIv Hurgh qunnoq
>>>>> quvbogh HoS'a' Hurgh. DaH qavan. reH qavan.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:57 AM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> darth Sidious wisely said..
>>>>> 
>>>>> cho'wI' DawIvchugh vaj Ducho'bej..
>>>>> vay' ghung law' SoH ghung puS ; DawIvchugh vaj DuSopchu'bej..
>>>>> vay' nom law' SoH nom puS ; DawIvchugh vaj DublIjDaq 'etlh DajunlaHbe'bej..
>>>>> vay' tuv law' SoH tuv puS ; DawIvchugh vaj HughlIjDaq 'etlh DabotlaHbe'bej..
>>>>> vay' pIQHa' law' SoH pIQHa' puS ; DawIvchugh vaj DuHoHbogh 'etlh'e'
>>>>> Da'uchbej..
>>>>> vay' val law' SoH val puS ; DawIvchugh vaj SoHDaq DughoS QIHlIj not 'e'
>>>>> Dalegh..
>>>>> 
>>>>> 'a 'ut ghojwI' ;
>>>>> pagh ghatlh, ghojwI' Hutlhbogh pIn'a''e'.
>>>>> 
>>>>> if you choose a successor, he will definitely succeed you..
>>>>> if you choose someone who is hungrier, he will definitely devour you..
>>>>> if you choose someone who is faster, you will not avoid the blade at your
>>>>> back..
>>>>> if you choose someone who is more patient, you will not block the
>>>>> blade at your throat..
>>>>> if you choose someone who is more devious, you will hold the blade
>>>>> that kills you..
>>>>> if you choose someone who is more clever, you will never see your
>>>>> destruction coming..
>>>>> 
>>>>> however a student is essential ;
>>>>> a master who lacks a student is a master of nothing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> mayqel mIv Hurgh qunnoq
>>>>> quvbogh HoS'a' Hurgh. DaH qavan. reH qavan.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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