[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: "shut up or I'll hit you"

[qov at kli.org]

> QISta': I don't think what you've written breaks any rules, but it seems to me that Qov is suggesting a more stylistic way of doing it...
>
> Qov: Thanks for the advice, but that raises more questions than it provides answers for me.
>
> bIjeghbe'chugh vaj bIHegh. -> Surrender or die.
>
> Actually it says: "If you do not surrender, then you die."

Literally it does. But it is the canonical translation of "surrender or die" suggesting that it is the correct way to form threats of that type.

> I suppose you are suggesting: {bItamchoHbe'chugh vaj qaqIp.} "If you don't become quiet, then I hit you."
>
> For what is meant to be such an imperative sentiment, why is the imperative avoided here? 

yItamchoH is an order.  bItamchoHbe'chugh vaj qaqIp. is a negotiation stance.  Perhaps anything including a choice is not an order. 

> Why not {yIjegh vaj yIHegh}? 

I myself wouldn't understand a connection between not surrendering and not dying from that order.

> Why not {yItamchoH pagh qaqIp}? 

"shut up or I hit you"  is an accepted threat in English.  It might mean "shut up [or else] I [will] hit you".  It might mean "shut up, or I hit you: [choose one option]".

{yItamchoH pagh qaqIp} might come off as odd in Klingon.  Maybe it is stylistically incorrect to link verbs in different  moods with pagh.  Maybe the implication isn't as obvious. Maybe it sounds like something a Terran would say. Maybe it works fine.  If it were fine, why would Marc have translated "surrender or die" the way he did on TKD p.170?

In any event, I am in agreement that there is no known rule broken in the proposed sentence, but I am a big fan of copying existing idioms for such speech. As is Marc: "Buy or die."

- Qov

--

Socialist Alternative
Klingon Language Institute

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:33 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn at flyingstart.ca> wrote:
Look up how to say “surrender or die” in Klingon, and then answer the question yourself.
 
From: chransberry at gmail.com [mailto:chransberry at gmail.com] 
Sent: February 24, 2016 10:02
To: tlhingan-hol at kli.org
Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: "shut up or I'll hit you"
 
So, I'm wondering about this construction, {yItamchoH pagh qaqIp}. That is, an imperative connected to a declarative, as a threat - does that work?

-QISta'
Pardon my woeful ignorance

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