[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: {-mo'} noun suffix vs. {-mo'} verb suffix

[mayql qunenoS]

thank you very much SuStel ! Now I understand !

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 6:35 PM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 2/18/2016 10:51 AM, mayql qunenoS wrote:
>>
>> ok, thanks ! So, and in order to be 100% certain I will ask :
>>
>> Whenever the -mo' noun suffix migrates to the end of a noun - be verb
>> pair, the resulting construction needs to come first in the sentence.
>> So far so good. Does the same apply when the rest of the type 5 noun
>> suffixes are concerned ? For instance will the constructions {noun -
>> be verb}Daq, {noun - be verb}vo', {noun - be verb}vaD need to be
>> placed too at the beginning of the sentence ?
>
>
> Any noun OR NOUN PHRASE that isn't a subject or object is usually placed at
> the beginning of a sentence. Time phrases go first, others come after the
> time phrase but before the OVS.
>
> One type 5 noun suffix that can easily appear as a subject is {-'e'}. We see
> an example of this in TKD, which has an error which I will correct:
> {jIlujpu' jIH'e'} "I, and only I, have failed. It is I who has failed."
>
> Theoretically nouns with other type 5 suffixes can appear as subject, but
> we've never seen one, and the meaning would probably be very odd. Consider:
> ?{'up be'Daq} "the state of being near the woman is disgusting." I don't
> know if it's valid Klingon, but it doesn't actually break any rules.
>
> We've seen objects with type 5 suffixes a number of times. Aside from {-'e'}
> (e.g., {De''e' vItlhapnISpu'} "I needed to get the INFORMATION," TKD)
> sometimes verbs that include a locative sense add {-Daq} to their objects
> redundantly. For instance, {pa'lIjDaq yIjaH} "go to your room!" (CK) doesn't
> mean to go while you're in your room; it means you're not in your room and
> you need to go to it. But we also have {jolpa' yIjaH} "go to the transporter
> room!" (ST3) in which the object is the destination and does not have {-Daq}
> on it. So while an object with a type 5 suffix on it "comes at the
> beginning," it only comes at the beginning of the OVS structure; there may
> be other words that come even before that, and its position is fixed.
>
> But MOST nouns or noun phrases with a type 5 noun suffix that aren't {-'e'}
> go before the OVS structure (but after any time phrase). We also have one
> example of an {-'e'} noun being used as a "header" as well. Most of these
> nouns and noun phrases aren't a subject or object, and so they go toward the
> front.
>
> So the answer to your question is that adjectival noun phrases with type 5
> suffixes aren't special with regard to "moving" to the front of a sentence;
> that's just the most likely place where they'll mean what you want them to
> mean. They go in exactly the same place they'd go if they weren't modified
> by verbs. If you'd put {tlhInganpu'qoqmo'} "because of the so-called
> Klingons" at the beginning of a sentence, you'd also put {tlhInganpu'qoq
> QuchHa'mo'} "because of the unhappy so-called Klingons} at the beginning.
> Modifying with a verb and migrating the suffix changes nothing.
>
> But I could also say, {SuvvIp tlhInganpu'qoq QuchHa''e'} "it is the unhappy
> so-called Klingons, and only those, who are afraid to fight." {-'e'}, as a
> type 5 noun suffix, migrates to the end of the modifying verb, but the
> position of the noun phrase doesn't change.
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
>
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