[Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: nID
mayql qunenoS
mihkoun at gmail.com
Wed Feb 17 11:05:54 PST 2016
Qov:
> Maybe {Hov DItIvmeH matam'eghmoHjaj}
> expresses your thought better.
This is indeed a good idea in order to express the intented meaning ;
Thank you for suggesting it.
Now that I'm thinking about it, here is what happens.. I wanted to
write this as a separate message, however because a previous message I
wrote "The ingenious thing about klingon" apparently never came
through (I never received it) I don't know anymore what eventually
goes out to the list and what doesn't. Anyway.. I'll write here the
following observations..
When someone writes in his native language, or in a language he is
proficient with, he performs an automatic task ; Whenever now a
beginner (and of course I'm referring to myself) writes in Klingon, he
starts writing in a lets-be careful-speed, however as soon as he
becomes excited/pissed/worked up etc he starts writing hastily thus
beginning to make mistakes he shouldn't be making. Therefore a
beginner must be able to keep his calm in order to avoid repeating the
same mistakes time and again.
Secondly, ghunchu'wi' had told me way back, that if I write only in
Klingon I will learn things wrong, without giving the chance to people
to correct me. His advice was true, and I find that it is imperative
for a beginner to provide the english translation too, in order for
the more experienced speakers to help and correct him. The drawback
however is that by providing the english translation too, one tends to
get sloppy and not pay attention to grammar, because he thinks that
"ok, even if I mess up the grammar, they will understand since I write
in english too". So, a beginner also needs from time to time to wrire
solely in Klingon so as to get the feel that by not having the "safety
net" of the english translation, he definitely needs to get his act
together, pay attention and eventually write in a way that makes
sense, in order for others to understand him.
Qov :
> DaHjaj bIberghlaw'. DuyIv'a' vay'?
Indeed and I apologize about that ; Something personal has happened
and I shouldn't take it out here. I am sorry if I wrote in a way that
bothered people. Soon I will be myself again !
cpt qunnoq
DaH DIHIvbe'chugh vaj go figure..
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:50 PM, <qov at kli.org> wrote:
>> Qov :
>> > Also I suspect the author wants to express the "may" idea with the
>> > second verb, too, but the way you've translated it is what was written.
>>
>> Actually no.. The intended meaning was <may we shut up and enjoy the
>> stars> ; not <may we shut up and may we enjoy the stars>.
>
> Be aware that in the English sentence "May we shut up and enjoy the stars"
> the wish idea extends from the may to both verbs, but in Klingon
> {matam'eghmoHjaj 'ej HovDItIv} it doesn't, so the Klingon sentence with one
> -jaj expresses a wish that we shut up, and then states that we enjoy the
> stars, not wishing that to be the case. "Let's shut up, and we enjoy the
> stars." It's a little weird to me that an exhortation is linked with a
> conjunction to a statement like that. Maybe {Hov DItIvmeH matam'eghmoHjaj}
> expresses your thought better. Given that you've rejected {matam'eghmoHjaj
> 'ej HovDItIvjaj} your thought isn't the same as the one I would express with
> "may we shut up and enjoy the stars," so I don't know what it is and can
> only guess.
>
> The need for a second -jaj if you did want to say "may we shut up and enjoy
> the stars," is similar to "Before you fall down and hurt yourself, turn on
> the lights," becoming "bIpumpa' qoj bIrIQ'eghmoHpa', pa' yIwomoH," or "On
> the sea and land" becoming {bIQ'a'Daq puHDaq je}.
>
> DaHjaj bIberghlaw'. DuyIv'a' vay'?
>
> - Qov
>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:22 AM, chransberry at gmail.com
>> <chransberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>muQuchqu'mo'
>> >
>> >>should have been {muQuchmoHmo'} "because it makes me happy"
>> >
>> > Yes, I thought so.
>> >
>> >>Note jItaHlaHbe' - the prefix jI- means the subject of the verb is I.
>> >
>> > Thanks for pointing that out; I didn't notice. Guess I should pay
>> > better attention!
>> >
>> >>>'ej QInHommey Quch vIghItlh.
>> >
>> >>Remember that Klingon sentences are OVS but English sentences are
>> >>generally written SVO. So translate this as "I will write happy notes."
>> >
>> > Oh yeah, you're right. I am just so used to any and all word orders
>> > that I didn't think about it.
>> >
>> >>>matammoH'eghjaj
>> >
>> >>Note that the suffixes are in the wrong order here. It should be
>> >>matam'eghmoHjaj.
>> >
>> > Hmm... the fact that "tammoH" is listed in boQwI' as a single unit
>> > could definitely be confusing on that point!
>> >
>> > -QISta'
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original message-----
>> >
>> > From: Robyn Stewart <robyn at flyingstart.ca>
>> > To: "chransberry at gmail.com" <chransberry at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: "tlhingan-hol at kli.org" <tlhingan-hol at kli.org>
>> > Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2016 21:18:01 GMT+00:00
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: nID
>> >
>> > With a couple of small exceptions you've translated what was written.
>> > He was referring to a previous transmission which you at not have
>> > seen. Some
>> > comments:
>> >
>> > muQuchqu'mo'
>> >
>> >
>> > should have been {muQuchmoHmo'} "because it makes me happy" and
>> let's
>> > see what else we've got.
>> >
>> > Note jItaHlaHbe' - the prefix jI- means the subject of the verb is I.
>> >
>> > 'ej QInHommey Quch vIghItlh.
>> >
>> >
>> > Remember that Klingon sentences are OVS but English sentences are
>> > generally written SVO. So translate this as "I will write happy
>> > notes." (presuming that "note" is the diminutive of message. I'm not
>> > really sure why qunnoq considers his message to be less than a message).
>> >
>> > matammoH'eghjaj
>> >
>> >
>> > Note that the suffixes are in the wrong order here. It should be
>> > matam'eghmoHjaj. Also I suspect the author wants to express the "may"
>> > idea with the second verb, too, but the way you've translated it is
>> > what was written.
>> >
>> > majQa'. mughmeH Qu' ngeD DawIvbe'pu'.
>> >
>> > - Qov
>> >
>> > On Feb 16, 2016, at 12:24,
>> > "chransberry at gmail.com"<chransberry at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hmm...
>> >
>> > "Because it happies me, in my last little message as for the perfect
>> > darkness which I describe, it cannot continue and happy little
>> > messages I write.. May we silence ourselves and we enjoy our dark
>> > stars.. If we silence ourselves we can certainly listen to them."
>> >
>> > Sorry, that's the best I can do...
>> >
>> > -QISta'
>> >
>> > -----Original message-----
>> >
>> > From: mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>
>> > To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol at kli.org>
>> > Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2016 17:59:07 GMT+00:00
>> > Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: nID
>> >
>> >> chaq Ha'DIbaH nge' verengan!
>> >
>> > muQuchqu'mo', QInHomwIj QavDaq Hurghchu'ghach'e' vIDelbogh,
>> > jItaHlaHbe' 'ej QInHommey Quch vIghItlh..
>> > matammoH'eghjaj 'ej Hovmeymaj Hurgh DItIv.. matammoH'eghchugh vaj
>> > DIQoylaHbej..
>> >
>> > cpt qunnoq
>> > reH taHjaj QIbmey.. reH che'jaj QIbmey..
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:36 PM, chransberry at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>> >> chaq Ha'DIbaH nge' verengan!
>> >>
>> >> -QISta'
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original message-----
>> >>
>> >> From: mayql qunenoS
>> >> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
>> >> Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2016 16:32:52 GMT+00:00
>> >> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: nID
>> >>
>> >>> jISovbe'! Ha'DIbaH vISam 'e' vinID, 'ach jIQapbe'!
>> >>
>> >> hahaha ! vaj be', DaSamqa' !
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 6:20 PM, chransberry at gmail.com
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> jatlh qunnoq:
>> >>>
>> >>>>be', nuqDaq oHtaH nImwIj'e'?
>> >>>
>> >>> jISovbe'! Ha'DIbaH vISam 'e' vinID, 'ach jIQapbe'! :-(
>> >>>
>> >>> -QISta'
>> >>>
>> >>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original message-----
>> >>>
>> >>> From: qurgh lungqIj
>> >>> To: "tlhingan-hol at kli.org"
>> >>> Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2016 15:02:43 GMT+00:00
>> >>> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: nID
>> >>>
>> >>> Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, February 16, 2016
>> >>>
>> >>> Klingon word: nID
>> >>> Part of speech: verb
>> >>> Definition: attempt, try
>> >>> Source: TKD (96 KE, 121 EK, 159 EK)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh
>> >>> (qurgh at wizage.net).
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >>>
>> >>
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