[Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: chaw'

[mayql qunenoS]

Qov :

> In Greek, do you transliterate loan words and use
> them unmarked in otherwise Greek text?

You're right. Your argument is strong and valid. On the other hand,
I'm not able -for the reasons I already wrote- to intermix english
words in a klingon sentence. So we will need to find a solution, in
order for all of us to be happy.

A solution so as (as you say in Canada) :

chab 'ay'maj wIghajlaH 'ej wISoplaH je.
we will be able to have our piece of the pie and be able to eat it too.

Or as we say in Greece :

chab naQ wIghajlaH 'ej ngugh ghungHa'bogh Ha'DIbaH.
we will be able to have an entire pie and at the same time a dog which
is full. (meaning that we managed to feed the dog, without sacrificing
the pie).

Or as we all say in both Canada and Greece :

cha' bo'Deghmey DIHoHmeH, wa' nagh wIlo'.
we will be able to kill two birds with one stone.

So, from now on, I will place the transliterated words in *aSterISqS*
and we will all be happy ! yes ?

Qov :

> For the purpose of this discussion, it's any OVS
> and the stuff in the sentence that goes with that OVS.

Finally I understand what a clause is !

Qov :

> Each clause needs to be in OVS order and  time
> and place information goes at the beginning of the clause it relates to, not
> necessarily before the entire sentence.

This is a beautiful and very enlightening sentence too..

Qov :

> To be safe, if you find yourself writing {'e' Xlu'}, change it to {net X}.

ok, I will apply this newly gained knowledge, the next time I come
across an {'e' Xlu'} sentence (or the need to say one).

Once more, by teaching me something I didn't know, you enlightened my
linguistic darkness ! Thank you for taking the time to explain all
this to me..

qavan Qov !

cpt qunnoq
DaH DIHIvbe'chugh vaj qo'chajDaq toy'wI''a'pu' DImoj

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 7:32 PM,  <qov at kli.org> wrote:
>> > Also, just stick with *Jedi*.
>> I accept SuStel's point, that by transliterating WHILE NOT providing the
> direct
>> english word net could confuse people, a reason for which I always write
> the
>> english word too ; but beyond that, I'm unable to
>> f*** up a klingon sentence, by the mere sight of an english word :)
>
> Fair enough. I read your Klingon sentences before looking at the English,
> and can confirm that unmarked transliterations are confusing. Consider
> starring them or otherwise marking them as imports. In English text when we
> import a foreign word not only do we only respell it if it's in a completely
> different alphabet, but we put it in italics, for decades. In Greek, do you
> transliterate loan words and use them unmarked in otherwise Greek text?
>
>> Qov :
>>
>> > Are you really saying that the main clause is in order to accomplish
>> > the -meH clause?
>> > There's a difference between {-meH}, establishing the purpose of the
>> > following clause, and {'e'}, acting as the direct object of the
>> > following clause.
>>
>> this may sound strange, but grammar was never my strong suit ; so, I have
>> absolutely no idea whatsoever what a clause is.
>
> Forgive me for assuming you did. For the purpose of this discussion, it's
> any OVS and the stuff in the sentence that goes with that OVS.  The sentence
> {jIghungmo' ngem wIghoSpa' megh vISopmeH Qe' wISuchnIS majawtaHvIS} has five
> clauses, one for each verb. The verb with no type-9 suffix, {Such} is part
> of the main clause, the core of the sentence, and all the other ones are
> called subordinate clauses. Each clause needs to be in OVS order and  time
> and place information goes at the beginning of the clause it relates to, not
> necessarily before the entire sentence.  In Klingon I might call a clause a
> mu'tlheghHom.  Other people might interpret {mu'tlheghHom} differently.
>
>> > Have you met the pronoun {net} yet?
>>
>> actually I have, but as I understood it until now, it was always to be
> translated
>> as "one does whatever" ; so, since until now I didn't come across the need
> to
>> say "one does.." I never used it.
>>
>> Qov :
>>
>> > bIba' net chaw'. = You are permitted to sit.  (We say this instead of
>> > *{bIba' 'e' chaw'lu'}. {'e' Xlu'} becomes {net X}.)
>>
>> for this reason in your example, until now I thought that this could ONLY
>> mean <one allows that you sit>. the <you are permitted to sit> is just an
>> alternative translation, or is it always imperative that the correct
> translation is
>> <you are permitted to sit> ?
>
> Both translations are possible. The only difference in meaning between "one
> allows you to sit" and "you are permitted to sit" is that the first is
> formal to the point of awkwardness. You could also say, "It is permissible
> to sit" or "You can sit." In English constructions with "one" are quite
> formal, and it's more common to say "you" when we really mean an undefined
> subject.  "When you enter the building, you immediately see the beautiful
> floor" really means {qach 'ellu'DI' SIbI' rav 'IH leghlu'}. It's not about
> YOU at all. You've probably never even been in the building.
> (If it were the text of a Dungeons and Dragons adventure, then it would
> actually mean {qach bo'elDI' ...} but without context I would translate it
> with {-lu'}.
>
>> Qov : :
>>
>> > {bIba' 'e' chaw'lu'}
>>
>> so this is wrong ?
>
> According to TKD it is wrong, but Okrand sometimes does it. (There was a
> post recently giving examples).  In proverbs we can just say it's
> traditional ungrammaticality, like the English expression, "if it ain't
> broke don't fix it" and in other cases we shrug and say that either there
> are some arcane rules we don't know allowing it, or Okrand messed up. To be
> safe, if you find yourself writing {'e' Xlu'}, change it to {net X}.
>
> - Qov
>
>
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