[Tlhingan-hol] Type 5 on first noun

[De'vID]

bI'reng:
> What if N1-5 N2 is possible only at the start of a clause? In other words,
> Klingons would understand {QamchIyDaq 'uQ'a'} as a noun phrase on its own,
> but would reject using that noun phrase as the subject of a sentence because
> N-5 has a stronger connection to a verb than it does to a noun. (N-5 V)
> overrides any (N1-5 N2).

Something that looks like N1-5 N2 can appear at the beginning of a
clause, but it's not a noun-noun construction. N1-Daq N2 V is a
sentence where N2 is the object of V, and N1 marks the location where
V takes place.

bI'reng:
> If we want to use a Chomskyan deep structure explanation, we start here:
>
> 1. *Dun QamchIyDaq 'uQ'a'.
>     The feast at QamchIy was wonderful. (ungrammatical).

If you really wanted to have "the feast at Qam-Chee" as a subject, you
could do something like {Dun QamchIyDaq qaSpu'bogh 'uQ'a'}.

bI'reng:
> At that point, the verb tells the noun to surrender its N-Daq and puts the
> N-Daq in it's own cargo hold at the beginning of the sentence.
>
> 2. QamchIyDaq Dun 'uQ'a'.
>    The feast at QamchIy was wonderful.
>
> We might quibble about the semantics of sentence 2, but I think it works.

It conveys something like what you want, but it's not a noun-noun
construction. "At Qam-Chee, the feast was wonderful." "The feast was
wonderful, at Qam-Chee". The being wonderful happens at Qam-Chee. The
concept "the feast at Qam-Chee", as a noun, doesn't exist in this
sentence.

bI'reng:
> Now suppose we wanted to say something like "At QamchIy, the warrior by the
> statue fought". In other words, there is some warrior by some statue, and
> I'm saying that he fought once in QamchIy.
>
> 3. *QamchIyDaq Suvpu' HewDaq SuvwI'.
>
>
> Now the verb says "All N-Daq belong to me! {HewDaq SuvwI'}, surrender yours
> at once!" The verb takes {HewDaq} and tries to fit it in its cargo hold, but
> the hold is full, so it jettisons one of the N-Daq. If we want to express
> the idea, we have to recast the sentence.
>
> 4. HewDaq SuvwI' yIqel. QamchIyDaq Suvpu'.

Consider the following canon:
{loS... qIb HeHDaq, 'u' SepmeyDaq Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH He ghoSlu'bogh
retlhDaq 'oHtaH.}
"It waits… on the edge of the galaxy, beside a passage to unknown
regions of the universe"
(SkyBox 99/01)

Note that {'u' Sepmey[Daq] Sovbe'lu'bogh} is a noun phrase with an
embedded {-Daq}. It denotes the destination of {lenglu'meH}. That
purpose clause is followed by the relative clause {He ghoSlu'bogh}.
Effectively, it's the noun {He} with a bunch of stuff attached. That
noun participates in a noun-noun construction, with {retlh}. That
noun-noun construction then takes a {-Daq}, the location of {'oHtaH}.

By comparison, {QamchIyDaq Suvpu' Hew retlhDaq Qambogh SuvwI'} is child's play.

-- 
De'vID