[Tlhingan-hol] FW: Conjunction, copula, gender

[Steven Boozer]

DaH mararchuq
  mayIntaHvIS
  wa' Dol bIH qa''e' porgh'e' je
We are now connected,
  Spirit and body are one,
  Until our time comes.   (PB, paqrad, Canto 3?)
 
SuStel:
>> First, in the {wa' Dol} line, we have the pronoun agreeing with the 
>> subject but not the object. {wa' Dol} is an {'oH}; {qa''e' porgh'e' 
>> je} are plural.

Lieven:
> Let's write this down as a rule, or at least as a guideline.
>
> Actually it's nothing surprising, since pronouns can be translated as
> the verb "to be", so it is the subject that rules over the verb. 
> Literally "they are something." Since klingon syntax is backwards, the
> verb (pronoun in this case) logically follows the subject.

>> Second, we know that a {qa'} is capable of using language, but the 
>> combination {qa' porgh je} has gotten the pronoun {bIH}, which 
>> indicates no language ability. A {porgh} is undoubtedly an {'oH}, not 
>> a {ghaH}, so the conjunction of these two "genders" has led to the 
>> less language-capable one controlling the pronoun.

> So either Okrand made a mistake, or we can write it down as a rule,
> which does make sense IMO. In the french language, a group of girls
> is female, but when it's a mixed group of boys and girls, then
> the group is male: "ils sont la".

Also in Hebrew and Arabic, which have different verb forms for the 3rd person plural: "they (male)" vs. "they (female)". 

{qa' porgh je} "body and soul" may be a known phrase.  It shows up elsewhere in the same section of the paq'batlh (IIRC paq'raD, Canto 3) - only without the pronoun - in parallel to {yab porgh je} "mind and body":

muvchuqmeH yabmaj porghmaj je
   muvchuqqa'meH porgh qa' je
   moQbara' tonSaw' DIlo'jaj
Let us join our mind and body
   In the forms of the *mok'bara*,
   To reunite body and soul.  (PB)

Perhaps the spirit/soul's ability to speak is irrelevant here and {qa'} is being considered merely as a component of the body, i.e. like {yab} "mind".  (For Klingons, who AFAIK are not telepathic, do minds have the ability to speak?) 


--
Voragh
tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a'
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons