[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: -Daq, and pronouns with -taH

[Steven Boozer]

Here are the examples of PRONOUN + {-taH} that I know of:

pa'Daq jIHtaH
I'm in the room. TKD

pa'wIjDaq jIHtaH
I am in my quarters. TKD

pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la''e'
The commander is in his quarters. TKD

jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'
I'm lost. TKD

naDev bIHtaH
Here they are. PK

qIrq.  DujHomDaq ghaHtaH!
Kirk. He's on the shuttlecraft! ST5

bIghHa'Daq ghaHtaH qama''e'
The prisoner is in the prison. KGT

bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH 'etlh'e'
The sword is in the ocean. KGT

meyrI'Daq 'oHtaH gho'e'
The circle is in the square. [qep'a' 2005]

qepHomDaq jIHtaHbe'. Saghal.
(MO qepHom 2013 greetings)

ta'mey Dun Data'meH naDev SoHtaH

You are here for great deeds (PB, paq'yav, 10)

qatlh naDev SoHtaH
naDev taHbe' leng 'IQ}

(PB, paq'yav, 10)


yuQDaq ghaHtaHbogh Hoch tlhIngan'e'
each Klingon on the planet (PB, paq'QIH 3.32)

loS... qIb HeHDaq, 'u' SepmeyDaq Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH
 He ghoSlu'bogh retlhDaq 'oHtaH
It [Deep Space 9] waits... on the edge of the galaxy, beside
 a passage to unknown regions of the universe. S99

pa' 'oHtaH vaS'a''e'.  tlhIngan qum waw' 'oH.
This is where the Klingon Great Hall is located, the
 center of the Klingon government. S27

As SuStel suspected, most are indeed non-permanent or temporary locations - except for the last two examples.  Okay, it's possible to move a big honking space station - DS9 was in fact relocated from orbiting Bajor to guarding the mouth of the wormhole - but the location of the Great Hall (a huge building) on Kronos is more problematic.

[I only have 3 examples from paq'batlh.  I'd appreciate it if someone would look for others.]

--
Voragh
tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a'
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons


From: SuStel [mailto:sustel at trimboli.name]
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 2:54 PM


On 4/23/2016 3:02 AM, De'vID wrote:

QISta':

So which is correct:

{nuqDaq SoH?}

or

{nuqDaq SoHtaH?}

?



And which of these is correct:

{DujDaq 'oH De'wI''e'.}

or

{DujDaq 'oHtaH De'wI''e'.}

?

I'm kind of surprised that SuStel hasn't said anything on this thread.

I thought about it, but I've been very busy lately and have had to choose the messages I respond to. puqloD Qup vIQorghtaH 'ej juH chu' vInejtaH.


Is it really true that there exist no instances in canon of (1)

{nuqDaq} used with a pronoun which has {-taH}, and (2) noun-{Daq} (or

{naDev}, {pa'}, or {Dat}) used with a pronoun without {-taH}?



Based purely on the known grammar of type 7 suffixes, I'd consider

{DujDaq 'oH De'wI''e'} and {DujDaq 'oHtaH De'wI''e'} to both be

correct sentences, but with different meanings.

Given the meaning of -taH, I'd expect the constructions with -taH to refer to non-permanent locations, while those without -taH refer to permanent locations. Most of the locative to-be constructions written by Okrand have been describing the locations of people rather than fixed features, and so get -taH, while sentences without -taH tend to be equating one person or thing with another.

I don't think the canon completely bears this out, though, so I didn't want to proclaim it without doing some research first. We'd basically have to list every to-be sentence ever and sort them into -taH and no -taH, then look at whether the sentences are referring to permanent or non-permanent features. DaH yapbe' poHwIj.


--

SuStel

http://trimboli.name
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol/attachments/20160425/a77f64d3/attachment-0001.html>