[Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: -Daq, and pronouns with -taH

[mayql qunenoS]

mISvam vIyajlaHbe'. maHvaD 'agh Ca'non master :

1. {jIH, ghaH, 'oH..}Daq {-taH} lurar jangmeH mu'tlhegh.
2. {jIH, ghaH, 'oH..}Daq {-taH} lurarQo' ghelmeH mu'tlhegh.

mu'tlheghvam lughItlhta'mo' 'oqranD, DaH ghItlhmeH mIw lugh wIleghlaHbej.

toH, nuq 'oH qay'wI'maj'e' ?

mop Hurgh qunnoq
hail Sauron, lord of the ring, lord of the earth

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:57 AM, John R. Harness <cartweel at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...after feeling inadequate about that non-answer I've tried looking again
> through TKD but am not turning up anything definitive. I guess I'll have to
> stick with "it's ambiguous-slash-people get it wrong" for now.
>
> Also, Kyle, I'd like to read that article but can't get to it through
> Academia.edu's billion questions. Do you know of another source?
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Socialist Alternative
> Klingon Language Institute
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 10:44 PM, John R. Harness <cartweel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm afraid I'm not going to be very helpful. As Voragh's examples show,
>> there is some variation. My understanding of this variation is that 1)
>> perhaps, as with nuqDaq, there are stylistic preferences for certain
>> phrases; and 2) plenty of people forget -- or clip -- the -taH.
>>
>> I know at recent qep'a'mey people have gone around the room saying
>> {pongwIj 'oH X'e'} without many eyebrows raised.
>>
>> Kyle: That's always how I've understand the pronoun-as-verb constructions:
>> that the pronouns can take as many verbal suffixes as one likes.
>>
>> 'arHa
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Socialist Alternative
>> Klingon Language Institute
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Dillon, Kyle <kyledi at spu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> On a related note, have you seen this article on academia.edu by Nick
>>> Nicholas?
>>>
>>> http://www.academia.edu/1278393/e_qun_Del_Topic_Focus_and_Copular_in_Klingon
>>>
>>> He talks about constructing zero-copula sentences in Klingon (which, by
>>> the way, is also how Arabic and Hebrew work). In such sentences, the
>>> pronouns start to do the work of copula verbs, even taking on verbal
>>> suffixes, as in the examples you gave. But that makes me wonder, to what
>>> extent can we add other verb suffixes to pronouns in zero-copula sentences?
>>> For example, in the sentence: "Worf was/has been an officer," could we say,
>>> yaS 'oHpu' wo'rIv'e' (with a type 7 perfective suffix on the pronoun)? Or
>>> how about "Kirk must/needs to be our captain" as HoDma' 'oHnIS qIrq'e' (with
>>> a type 2 suffix of necessity on the pronoun)?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm not really answering your question, I know. My hunch is that
>>> in the examples you give, the sentences could be written either way, with
>>> the -taH suffix simply emphasizing a continuous action/state.
>>>
>>> Kyle
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Apr 15, 2016, at 9:18 AM, "chransberry at gmail.com"
>>> <chransberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am a little confused on the matter of the interaction between -Daq and
>>> pronouns with -taH.
>>>
>>> I think, from responses to my sentence exercises, that {Saj nujDaq
>>> bIHtaH} is preferred over {Saj nujDaq bIH}. So I would say {DujDaq jIHtaH}
>>> and {HuDDaq chaHtaH} etc. That's easy enough.
>>>
>>> The confusion comes from a sentence I learned before I even joined the
>>> list, and a subject line soon after. They weren't confusing then, but now in
>>> light of this -taH rule I'm a bit confused. The sentences were {nuqDaq 'oH
>>> puchpa''e'?} and {nuqDaq ghaH 'arHa'e'?}
>>>
>>> So which is correct:
>>> {nuqDaq SoH?}
>>> or
>>> {nuqDaq SoHtaH?}
>>> ?
>>>
>>> And which of these is correct:
>>> {DujDaq 'oH De'wI''e'.}
>>> or
>>> {DujDaq 'oHtaH De'wI''e'.}
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -QISta'
>>>
>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>
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>>
>
>
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