[Tlhingan-hol] Things missing

Thu Oct 29 07:17:59 PDT 2015

it was very interesting to read all the various replies,with regard to my
original post ; still i believe it is important for me to address two
issues that came up. Two issues which i believe were brought forward as
questions to me.

1. why do you ask for more canon ?
2. who is to decide what should be considered valid/canon ?

although i could provide short answers to these questions i would rather
take the long way around.

lets start by writing some thoughts that may appear irrelevant at first,but
later on,it will be understood why i wrote them.

the skill someone has in Klingon can be measured by tests/grammar exercises
etc. how would you measure though how much he likes it ? how passionate he
is about it ? how much he wants to learn it ? is there a test ? a way to
find out ? i don't think so..
Klingon (and every other language constructed or not) falls under the
category "education". Surely not a kind of education you would profit from
- professionally - but it is a kind of education nevertheless ; What is one
of the most basic characteristics/attributes of education ? The fact that
it becomes a part of you. It becomes a part of yourself,and no one,no one
can ever separate you from it. Lets say you are an engineer. No matter what
happens you will always be an engineer. Even if war breaks out,even if you
find yourself stranded 1000 miles away from home,you will still be an
engineer. Your knowledge is a part of you,and it cannot be separated from
you. Ever. Furthermore education comes as an irreversible process which
changes you -irreversebly too-. You can't unlearn what you have already
learned.
Even if you changed profession,you would still be an engineer.

So to answer the first question..

"why do you ask for more canon ?"

It is not that i'm asking for more canon. It is that i want/i demand/accept
nothing less than Klingon to be perfect. Yes,now i'm a beginner. But the
time will come,when i will be able to write in Klingon ; when this language
will have been made a part of myself,the same way that my heart is a part
of my body. It will be part of my education/skills/abilities and i expect
nothing less than for it to be complete. To be as whole as possible. To be
far more superior than any other constructed language. I expect and demand
"borg perfection",the same way that Klingon will have expected from me
time/persistence/patience in order for it to become a part of me.

"why do you ask for more canon ? after all you can always find "ways
around" any deficiencies it may have"

..true, but ask yourselves. If you had a torn posterior cruciate ligament
in your knee,would you be ok with it ? You would be in pain from time to
time,but surely you could find a "way around" it too. You could take
meds,use a brace,do physical therapy etc,etc. Why would you prefer your
knee to be "perfect" ? wouldn't all those "ways around" suffice ?
You would want your knee to be "perfect" not only because you wouldn't want
to feel pain or activity restrictions. You would want your knee to be
perfect because it is a part of your body and you want/demand/accept
nothing else,than for it to be perfect.

so,because i love Klingon and because it is becoming/will eventually become
one of the languages i speak,because it is becoming a part of myself i
want/demand/accept nothing else than for it to be perfect. Its as simple as
that.

Second question..

who is to decide what should be considered valid ? who should create canon ?

i believe i'm the last person to answer those questions. as i noticed at
the archives,this mailing list goes way back so i think that experienced
Klingonists along with Okrand could decide that. Lets approach this from
another angle ; who's to decide whether a pharmaceutical product is safe ?
The FDA of course,right ? Who created the FDA ? The country whose people
were to be served by the FDA.

The subject of "fragmentation" came up ; "if an institution would create
canon,then wouldn't there be the possibility of schisms in the community,of
alternate versions of Klingon cropping up,every time a group of Klingonists
would disagree ?"

At first glance this is a valid argument. Even I,would be tempted to agree.
I mean lets face it. I always buy nexus phones because i want the "pure
android experience". And of course my phone isn't a part of me. How would i
be ok with any kind of "watered down" version of a language which is to
become a part of myself ? The answer is that of course i wouldn't be ok ;
that's why i wrote -even in my original post- that this institution would
have to be recognized as the "sole authority". The same way that the FDA is
the only organization with the authority to act in its area of expertise.
Surely someone could go on,and still use unsafe health products. But that
would be his choice,and eventually his problem.

I truly wonder.. If we were to say that to create an institution which
could create canon would lead to fragmentation, then would that mean that
the opposite would guarantee 100% canon conformity ? that the lack of such
an institution guarantees "purity" ?

If Klingon has inherent deficiencies in grammar/vocabulary,then one would
be forced to go through all kinds of "linguistic acrobatics" to get the
desired meaning through. Wouldn't that inevitably lead to ambiguity in
regard to the meaning he's trying to express ? Why shouldn't i think that
all these "acrobatics" wouldn't eventually lead to a sentence which's
meaning could be interpreted differently depending on the interpretation of
the individual listener ?
So,wouldn't we eventually have a language which's meaning would
fragment/dissolve depending on the individual ?

I can understand perfectly the argument that "what you describe can't ever
happen for copyright reasons". But i can't accept the argument "even if
there weren't copyright issues,then again canon shouldn't be created"

It is the law of nature that unless you adapt,unless you overcome
deficiencies then you'll be rendered obsolete. A law of nature,not mine ;
And this is something i do not like,something i do not want,something i do
not wish for a language that is slowly becoming a part of myself.

qunnoQ HoD

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 3:27 PM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:

> On 10/29/2015 2:16 AM, Tim Stoffel wrote:
>
>> Considering what the Klingon language community has accomplished over
>> the years, it would be a shame to think that the end of Marc Okrand
>> (which I hope is no time soon!) could be the end of the Klingon
>> language.
>>
>> We need a mechanism to keep the language alive.
>>
>
> Such a mechanism can be dreamed up at such time as Okrand leaves us or
> decides not to do Klingon anymore. Why try to impose it now? The language
> won't suddenly evaporate when he's gone.
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Tlhingan-hol at kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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